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Rob_Hugo@PortNWHi everyone,
Please share your thoughts about our March 24 session, "Late Imperial China," by Clay Dube, by replying to this post.
-Miranda
AnonymousThe information was interesting, but the time limit was a bit frustrating. I was surprised about the Great Wall; it is such an iconic structure that it is hard to imagine a time when it didn't exist, and when it wasn't celebrated. You can't blame the Mongol rulers for placing it low on their priority list since it was originally built to keep them, and others, out.
AnonymousThe time line of the early and middle imperial periods of China really helped to clarify things for me. Professor Dube gives a heck of a lecture. He really makes it interesting and packs in tons of content. I found myself wishing there was time to hear about the Ming dynasty. The concept of openness vs. closed in late imperial China is a great topic because it is timeless in a way. All societies reap benefits and suffer the consequences of globalization on whatever scale is relevant for the time. I think this is an important concept to keep in mind as we start discussing Japan next week.
AnonymousI'm not a big fan of the dramatic elements of the "historical encounter", and I'm guessing most of my 8th graders wouldn't be either, but the debate idea was a good one. I might give my students time before the debate to prepare and make sure their fellow philosophers are up to speed, then do the debate, and then give a lecture that provides an overview and feedback of the debate. The Ebrey primary documents were a great source for most of the answers to the debate questions.
I wish we had gotten to the later dynasties and discussed China's isolation and decline. It's the historical equivalent of Michael Jordan retiring (the first 2 times). There they were at the peak and they decided to jump off (or at least that was the result). I'm interested in the reasons WHY they took that course. UCLA Professor Jared Diamond makes the case that China's unification in 221 BCE was both a reason for it's rapid rise and fall. A unified nation can get some serious stuff done, but it also faces atrophy at the hands of a few poor ideas/leaders. He asserts that Europe's many competing nation-states helped lead to technological advancement, colonization, and superior political/military power while China was sitting on the sidelines.
AnonymousThis session was the best yet. I truly enjoy being a part of the process rather than simply a recipient of knowledge. I was disappointed that the debate was so short, and that we didn't have the time to get to the point of speaking to one another beyond Prof. Dube's leading questions. Still it was invigorating and exciting.
Regarding the condition of open and closed in China, I am reminded of how closed the U.S. has been at certain points in our history, and I wonder if there is any correlation between circumstances in China that led to a closed attitude and the circumstances in the U.S. that led to it. Could it be that unification leads to this, and not to openness. I'm not knowledgeable enough to discern this, but it seems and interesting question. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
AnonymousI felt this was an exciting class, I like variety in instruction. Like many, I would have enjoyed a longer debate and longer lecture on China. I didn't know how important the Grand Canal was to China then and now. I find that I am much more interested in China everything both Dube lectures.
Mohism appeals to me more and more as I find out about the period and rivaling philosophies. I understand better how China has come to be or view itself because of these world views.
Anonymousoff the bat- im definitely going to engage my students in a similar debate. i went to a social studies conference recently and one presentor was describing how she uses debate in her classroom. I would really want my kids to get the chance to go at it, but of course i would have to scaffold, maybe do a more structured debate prior to one like this.
ok so the late imperial china lecture- same as cosmopolitan china- i really like this idea of an open china- confidence v. xenohobia, and how Ye and Dube describe very specific examples of how different cultures have influenced the Chinese. I would love to draw parallels in class, to our own society, and have a discussion about US history, maybe immigration, and discuss the benefits of having an "open" country.
Also, I wasn't aware of the size of the Mongolian Empire! I would like to delve into the influence of the Mongolians on East Asia. We hardly have time in the year to explore that.
AnonymousChina history is becoming slightly easier for me to get a grip on. It's just so old and there are so many people and names and dynasties and philosophers.
GG
AnonymousI have a couple of USC students that come into one of my history classes to teach the kids about East Asian history. Yesterday, April 1st, they had the kids do skits about Confucianism, Daoism and Buddhism. They gave the students a similar question to Dube's, and students had to act out the situation. In their skits, the students had to respond in a way a follower of that specific belief system would respond. Students got into it! and they were definitely learning from each other!
AnonymousI had used the debate questions and 4 column chart with my 6th grade students when we were studying these philosophies. Each student was to take one debate question and be able to answer it the following day during our "debate". The debate was simply each group answering the questions on the chart and all students filling it in. I found that after this activity the students did much better on the test and most choose to write about the philosophy that they had studied during the debate. It was a much more interesting way to learn this information than what the curriculum had planned.
I love the lectures by Dube but feel I could be in the class all year and still left with many questions. There are so many factors that lead to the rise and fall of cultures that it is fascinating to discover what is happening in other parts in the world at the same time as other events in time that I have studied. Students really need a way to connect these events together to really understand what is happening in the world.
AnonymousYou know our little debate got me thinking about my classes. I have only conducted one socratic seminar/debate this year and it was with my 8th graders. I felt like it worked really well, but the time frame was really tight. I want to try the style that we did for our debate where the moderator was obviously in control and guiding us through the topics. I felt like it was almost like a continuous story that we were a part of. Although it was short, I felt like everyone got something out of it and it was both meaningful and beneficial to us all! 6th graders beware...debates are ah' comin! 
AnonymousP.S.
I was both happy and sad that Dube's lecture ended prematurely. I was really interested in the location of Beijing and how crucial the Grand Canal was. I never knew that such a project, from the Sui Era had such a profound effect on society even to this day! It was especially amazing to see how much more important it was than the Great Wall! A wall that is super famous...but for tourists more than anything else! :~
AnonymousWow! Aparently when I forgot to respond to our "question" about our father and his crime, I forgot to respond to Prof. Dube's lecture. Sorry! Now that it has been so late in coming, I find I can't remember all I need to say. Regardless, as usual it was a great lecture. I really wished we had more time debate. Although I was nervous about the debate, it turned out to be a lot of fun, and informative. What a great way to learn about the philosophies and one I'm sure the students will enjoy. Now that was great "modeling" as a confusian would say. I do agree with an earlier writer who said they were finally getting an understanding of Chinese history, I agree. It has been a long time coming, because it is so old and extensive, but it is also more fascinating as we continue on our historical journey.
AnonymousEven my 7th graders had already completed our China unit, I was able to incorporate some of Clay's teachings. Last week, we are beginning to learn about the Renaissance and trade. One main component was the Silk Roads and Marco Polo! I was able to include this into their discussion AND the students had read about foot-binding from their English class. Double Whammy!
AnonymousI know this topic is about late imoerial China but I am struck by how controlling the emperors/emperesses were. Many views prevailed and some celebrated and some persecuted. China has moved so far politically but still oppressive in some ways; people's views for instance.
I wrote a review of a lecture at USC n the government's efforts to ban a religious movement. Please read, if the topic interests you. It is attached.