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Rob_Hugo@PortNWThere was an article on the web that caught my attention. It describes how many people across Asia have become frustrated over their democratic systems/governments, and how this resulting disappointment can possibly threaten the democracy in Asia.
For example, the article states that in a recent survey of political attitudes only 41 percent in Taiwan think that democracy is the best form of government, and only 49 percent of Koreans think that it is the best alternative.
The article goes on to state that in countries like Thailand and the Philippines there is so much hostility towards the democratic process that many people favor having some form of authoritarian type of government.
This attitude is not new, historically speaking, there has always been a segment of the population that thinks democracy is the most dangerous type of decision-making institution.
For example, in history class we recently finished discussing the four types of government found in ancient Greece, and one of the things students learned was that the people were sometimes too easily influenced to make bad decisions, and because of this danger other earlier forms of government, like tyranny and oligarchy, were favored by some its citizens. In other words, democracy is not always seen as the end all by everyone.
After reading the article I couldn’t help but think how divergent our attitudes of government our compared to those in Asia. In the US we may complain about politicians and our system, it is practically a national pastime, but no one seriously considers getting rid of what we have and replacing it with some type of dictatorship.
However, in Asia it seems that some people would be perfectly content to have this type of arrangement in place. China is able to function and even prosper with a government that severely limits civil liberties. And as the article points out, Asian countries do not have the same history with democracy that people in western countries do.
Moreover, this brings up a hot topic right now, which is whether western style democracy is the best system government for everyone. The current administration seems to think so, everywhere President Bush goes you can hear him say how democracy is “on the march”, etc.
The link to the article is
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12016837/site/newsweek/
AnonymousPlease see attached comments. [Edit by="jashworth on Apr 4, 11:09:23 PM"][/Edit]
Anonymouswalter?
thanks for this discussion topic. it is really interesting. a couple of months ago i was teaching my unit on enlightenment. i recall how i taught about political development and didn't criticially challenge my students to think about topic. i think they walked away thinking that democracy is at the end of the rainbow, and how autocracy only returns when enlightened, educated people don't pay attention to the world around or somethings goes very wrong.
you reminded me that i also think about the democracy in a vacuum and from an american perspective. for example, although i feel that democracy for everyone, i feel more so that it is an eventuality, but that it should be organically grown and forced on someone. but nonetheless, i still assume that democracy is the best form of government.
i feel like i know more about the tumultuous state of politics in africa and the instability of latin america, but i do feel the asain perspective still elusive because, i guess, it is the one continent that i feel was least changed or culturally uprooted from its passed by european imperialism in the 1800's. eastern philosophy i feel is still dominant in asian society and culture, at the very least resting in the psyche of people. therefore, it makes sense to me that many asians, asian governments question democracy more. just some thoughts i had...
antonio garcia
AnonymousWalter, Antonio, everyone,
I was reading an article today about Democracy in Korea (ROK) and according to the current progressive trends there, some are worried that Korean is culture is quickly transforming into a western like society. Asian traditional culture which is vertical and paternalistic, is becoming more horizontal as women gain more equality and material prosperity is spreading. Since the 90's the country has been saturated with technology that also lends toward a new openess that seems to go along with democratization. The progressive democratic trend is especially strong among the younger generation of Koreans. The recent trends have also resulted in a response from a new conservative movement, which is seeking to preserve some of the traditional cultural values that are deeply rooted in the history of that part of the world. [Edit by="jashworth on Apr 26, 5:48:05 PM"][/Edit]
AnonymousAfter reading your post I am reminded how common that particular sentiment is among other societies as well. For example, in France there are government officials and social commentators that seem to think that French culture is on the endangered species list, and have introduced legislation/ideas to "save" it, e.g., one idea promoted recently was there should be limits on foreign words used in the French language.
And of course, there is that sentiment propounded by some in the Middle East that anything Western is an attempt by the devil to corrupt Islamic ideals. For example, women wearing make-up is a Western practice that is viewed by some as being inherently wrong. It seems to me that these fears over American culture/values stem from two basic beliefs.
The first belief is that these American ideas are seen as a foreign invasion, ie, the same as if American troops landed on their soil. Whether valid or not, this notion creates the reaction that we see among certain societies.
The second belief is what I believe to be a psychological reaction to something new. Just as a person can be made uncomfortable when introduced to a totally new way of doing a particular task/job a society can react very much in the same manner. Especially if that society has a long tradition of doing something a particular way.
AnonymousI enjoyed reading this post Walt, and I think it is important we ask ourselves these questions. Why is it that Americans take it for granted that democracy is the best form of government and that everyone would welcome its formation in their country? I find the morally superior, self-righteous attitude assumed by the US in the global political debate embarrassing. The rest of the world sees our political shortcomings and has been pointing them out for years. The disconnect between our rhetoric and the reality is huge and is one of the reasons that many in Asia might not yearn for democracy.
What exactly do we mean by democracy and why do we feel it is superior to all other systems? Is it the emphasis on individual freedoms and happiness? The government we have today in the United States is certainly no pure democracy. Have we attained equality and freedom, or are there any groups whose interests receive special protections? Have we sufficiently controlled the opportunity for abuse and manipulation of our system by any individual interests? Are there any barriers to entry to the political arena, because democracy requires at least the possibility for participation of all citizens. Does the legal system in the US - so foundational to effective democracy - function without flaw or failure?
We in the United States accept the limitations of democracy as it exists today based on the impossibility of making decisions in a truly democratic fashion and the necessary evil of allowing elite interests greater power. Our representative government is purported to be democratic because our elected officials supposedly reflect the desires, values and goals of their constituents, but do we in the US truly believe that is how it always works out? I doubt many people feel our system works in this idealized manner, yet when we look at other systems of government, we always compare the reality of their imperfections as we perceive them to the democratic ideal. We know that in reality there are large segments of our population that are disenfranchised, yet we are shocked at the thought of other cultures accepting a political system that would assume this to be inevitable.
I think we are all so comfortable with the compromises we’ve made within our system that we no longer even see the differences between an idealized democracy and the present day United States Government. Many of the most important decisions are made without even disclosing the context of the debate to the public, let alone involving all citizens in the decision making process. Free thought and expression are absolutely fundamental to the workings of a true democracy, but those are not always achieved in our experience. Look at the manipulation of the media and control of information exerted by powerful people (elected and private) and tell me we really have this democracy thing down.
Despite our constant bellyaching about politicians and the shortcomings of our government, we do not seriously entertain the prospect of changing our system because like our Asian counterparts (and like virtually all modern peoples) we know in our hearts that a truly perfect system is not possible and that the corruptions and flaws that we are living with are in some measure unavoidable. While I like to believe that the “American” system of government is better than most, I do not believe our mythology of having found the one true path.
I believe the only way it would be appropriate to even begin to posture that we know what is best for anyone else is to begin from a truthful, accurate and realistic understanding of our own system. We cannot pretend to offer a better alternative if we only discuss unrealized and impossible idealizations of democracy.
We also have to examine the cultures we want to graft democracy onto. The unique values and philosophies that allowed some elements of democracy to develop in the West do not exist everywhere. Political philosophies and practices cannot be simply forced on a society from the outside but need to have roots in the unique and organic practices of the governed.
Can you tell this is an issue I feel strongly about? Let me end by just saying that I also feel that as teachers it is important that we do a better job of educating our students so that they do not fall prey to the simplistic, ethnocentric worldview that alienates many around the world today.
AnonymousPeter Hessler is a writer who has been living in China since working as a Peace Corps volunteer at Fuling Teachers College. He has written two books about his experiences, the first one called "River Town: Two Years on the Yangtze" and his newest one "Oracle Bones: A Journey Between China's Past and Present". He was interevied this month in National Geographic magazine by Todd Carrel. In 1992 Carrel was severely beaten by police while covering a protest in Tiananmen Square and he is now permanently disabled due to that experience. Carrel and Hessler talk during the interview about the millions of young people who are uprooting themselves from their rural village homes and moving to China's cities in the hopes of fulfilling their dreams.
Younger people may be sent from the villages by the older generations to make money in the cities and then send it back. Sometimes the young people return to the villages but more often they do not. There is a growing gap between the rural villages and the booming cities of China. The villages become more isolated and left out of the growth and changes ocurring in the cities.
The resources in China are not keeping up with the demand as more people move towards a more material based style of life. Polution is increasing as the cities grow and the urban populations slide into the wasteful use of resources that seems to be prevalent in our Western societies. Hessler describes a visit to the home of a family in the process of moving to a newly established city. Many families had toto leave their village to make room for the building of a dam, thus the new city. They had decorated their new home with many lights, red lights in the entry way, blue lights on the main ceiling, and a chandelier with 32 lights in it. During dinner the men complained about the dam and the necessary relocation and how nobody was getting the settlement they had been promised, and in the meantime every one of these lightbulbs were burning. Hessler points out that people in China are not yet used to consumption in the way that people in the West are used to it, and there is still a lot of work that needs to be done to find the balance of living a comfortable life and managing the available resources. He points out that Americans certainly do not act as good role models for this, with our big gas guzzling cars and wasteful living.
There are more of Peter Hessler's insignts about Chinese culture at the National Geographic website http://ngm.com/0606
AnonymousWow, that's really interesting. The proliferation of technology has started an alarming trend all over the world. Oppressive societies are going to have a more and more difficult time controlling the masses. I think it's a very exciting to be alive. It's about time that regimes learn to treat all humans with respect. I read somewhere recently that Chinese Idol wasn't working because the government didn't want the judges to degrade the contestants. Idol without a Simon Cowell? Impossible. The Chinese have access to the real Idol so they know what's going on. Text messaging and the internet have been huge changes in the amount of information that is available to people that wouldn't have access to it normally.
AnonymousThe idea of democracy has existed in Asia if we carefully consider the philosophical viewpoints of Buddhism or Confucianism. The greater good of human societies and nature depends upon the collective goals for all, not just selfish interests. Similar to the political party system in our country, the masses follow a certain line of thought and belief that is the bottom line for the greater good. The U.S. republic itself is not built on true democracy of one person rule. We are a representative form of government, where not every policy or law is voted on by the citizens.
However I think in Asia, demoncracy in practice is not visible as we are comfortably accustomed to in the West. Do workers rile and rant daily against their leaders without fear of who is listening? Can women discuss inequalities without social stigmas of isolation or being shamed? Do students and children freely aspire to lead their nation one day, feeling the power of the masses that support them, not revere them in vain?
What I truly appreciate in our country is that we could vote without a "second thought." Thank goodness for Civil Rights and the Constitution, I don't have to look over my shoulder going to a polling place, or feel someone is eavesdropping on conversations about political convictions, or judging my votes based on all the criterias that society looks at others (religion, socio-economic, geographical, cultural, national)....
Also, as we Americans travel abroad, if we notice political apathy much like our youth in the U.S., then democracy must be truly present... Didn't our founding fathers want that??? An unobtrusive government that left the rich, ruling class alone???
Finally, should a true democratic society have mandatory service in the military (selective service/draft)? I'm not talking about the conflicts we are involved in? That is a matter for another debate... Since Japan did not have the burden of military spending in the late 20th century, did democracy thrive along with the economy???[Edit by="ssaito on Jul 19, 6:01:12 PM"][/Edit]
AnonymousDoes democracy really exist in China? According to a web article about Chinese democracy, this form of government was introduced to China in 1895 by an exiled Chinese writer by the name of Liang Qichao as a means of increasing participation in government by Chinese people. What Chinese call "minzhu," or "people as masters" differs somewhat from what Westerners call democracy, or government by the people. Whereas democracy in the West seeks to protect the rights of individuals, Liang felt that there was no difference between the individual interests and public interests. Because of Liang's strong Confucian background, he was able to shape the ideas of democracy in China.
Democracy was also embraced by Chinese communists, including Mao Zedong. According to the article, these ones called the May 4th Movement of 1919 the beginning of the " New Democratic Revolution." Instead of attaining his ideal of a democracy, Mao succeeded in establishing a bureaucracy, creating a new priviledged class. Mao's desire also led to the Cultural Revolution that occured between 1966 and 1976. Unlike Liang, Mao believed that the state must rely on the strength of the people.
Here enters Deng Xiaoping. When he came to power in the late 1970's, he instituted yet a different kind of democracy involving a contest of sorts whereby four lines were involved: socialism, , the dictatorship of the proletariat, the Combination of Marxism- Leninism-Maoism, and party leadership. The article mentions too that Deng set out to bring about a series of political, economic, and social reforms that would allow them to ""catch up" to the West.[Edit by="wjkillian on Aug 17, 2:16:37 AM"]Democracy is not about countries being in competition with other countries. It's more about each country respecting the individual rights of its own people. So as we strive to establish democratic classrooms, we must keep this principle in mind.[/Edit]