Message from canaise

[Anonymous]

Late Imperial China Clayton August 4

A lot got cleared up for me in this lecture on Late Imperial China. But, before I say what a jumble my history knowledge on China, Kublai Khan, Marco Polo and all that mix, let me address what I got from the organization of the presentation.

First: China does have a problem. Like all nations it has to decide how to deal with other nations. This is hard for us to understand since we have not been “dealt with” by foreign powers in the massive way that China has. How far can it open and not be torn asunder or destabilized? With a history like China’s of foreign domination it is understandable that it is sensitive.

Secondly, it has to decide how much growth it can support, because it has always been subject to intrusion and domestic unrest. The Communist Party is promising a better life and protection if the people will stick with them. The young elites seem not to care so much for human rights and freedoms as long as they enjoy the good life. The older Teinamin Square folks are horrified.

And, lastly, how will the Chinese remember their past? Communist Russia suspended all history exams in the 1970s, I believe, because they wanted to admit that the history they had been teaching was skewed. It was false. They admitted that. Will China be as strong? How will they interpret their past and the chance events that formed it?

Dr. Ye does not include the Song dynasty of 960-1279 because it was ruled by an outsider? And what’s with these Northern warriors, anyway. Did you ever notice that wherever you are in history or on the map, it seems most often to be tougher guys from the north who beat the hell out of every other tribe. I had always assumed that the great Genghis Khan had ruled over China, but not so. It was Kublai Khan in 1214-1294. I had assumed he was despised. Not so. Well, not by scholars who Clayton says give him high marks for territorial expansion. What I found most fascinating is that the area that is now or was Tibet is brought under, not Chinese, but Mongol control. Ah ha! Is this why China says that Tibet was actually always China’s territory. And, wow, the first six Dahli Lamas were were Mongolian!!!! Very, very interesting. I’d heard that but did not realize that at that time, Tibet was under Mongol rule. Now I understand China’s reasoning, but I don’t buy it. China wants the resources in Tibet and is rapidly wrecking the pristine environment. I also see why Clayton gives the Mongols credit.

Question: If the Mongols were Buddhist, why were they such blood-thirsty killers? Well, at least when questioned, they were. But, then it would be nothing new for any religion to profess peace while wielding a sword. So, I guess the Mongols were so secure in their power that they could afford to be tolerant of Buddhism.

Really, I don’t know if it’s possible for us in the U.S. to have a sense of the sweep of history, the scope of foreign domination that China has experienced. Mongolian rule, Manchurian, and off and on, China get to rule itself. I can see how the Communist Party would make use of this, even with those Chinese who don’t have the history under their belts, I do think a sense of the terror of history is handed down from generation to generation.

Interesting:

1.Mongols do away with Civil Exams
2.Mongols tolerate differing religions
3.Mongols seem like a Roman, secular state to me
4.Zhu Yuan Zhang (1328-98), a legalist, emphasis on keeping officials honest and efficient. A poor guy who claws his way to the top.
5.We could use a censor in the U.S. to keep an eye on dishonest folks in government. We’d have to hire a lot of them.
6.A Muslim Zhen He (1471-1433) is emperor. How can that be? A eunuch as well! Had he continued his sea bound explorations, who knows where China would be today.
7.Matteo Ricci (1552-1610) Who knows what accomplishments could have come about had this Jesuit been able to convey accurate knowledge that the earth moves
8.Ever and always, except in unusual cases, religion stands in opposition to the truth about how the universe is. We will kill you if you find information that disagrees with our ideology. A great book I recently read is GOD IS NOT GREAT: HOW RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING by Christopher Hitchens.
9.So, it’s the building of the Dagbo (sp?) bridge that makes China think that it owns Tibet. Nonsense.