19th century China -- clayton dube

[clay dube]

Please use this area of the forum to raise questions and make comments about the readings and about the issues raised during this seminar session.

[Anonymous]

Food for Thought: The Balance of Trade with China
I believe it was Session I on Monday where a powerpoint slide showed the gap in trade between European powers and China. In the second reading, concerning the Opium Wars and the Treaty of Nanjing, Europe moved to close the gap in trade with China.

I found it very interesting that statistics now show a similar trend in the gap in trade. At times when our federal government is spending more than it is taking in, we see cheap manufacturing in China begin to rule again.

As history teachers we try to show how history repeats itself. As we saw similar trends rise between the stock market crash of 1929 and 2008, we can see similarities with the new rise of China. All that’s left is to utilize the opium fields in Afghanistan to balance trade again, right? In all seriousness, I just find it interesting of how history does tend to repeat itself. Lesson learned?

Trade gap widens as imports and exports rise

[Anonymous]

I have subscribed to Newsweek magazine for the past five years and I have taken a growing interest in the International List portion of the magazine. It is in this section where many stories relating to developments and changes taking place in East Asia have been written. China in particular has been the subject of several of these articles. This has been one example of the growing importance of East Asia in the world community. I have had an interest in obtaining more primary sources and teaching materials to help teach the standards I am responsible for teaching, but also to expose my students to this dynamic and increasingly influential region of the world. Teaching a unit on imperialism, which is often taught using Africa and India as case studies, is well suited to bringing East Asian examples as well. This could be presented from both the perspective of the colonizer and those that have been colonized. Rob

[Anonymous]

I never learned about the Treaty of Nanjing in school, so I'm embarrassed to say that this was news to me! I never knew the circumstances of China losing control of Hong Kong. I also didn't know that Britain sold opium to China. Ok, now that I've revealed my ignorance...I'm thinking of how I can incorporate this information into my classroom. This would make a great topic for discussion, with groups taking the side of Britain or China, then researching their positions and coming together to talk about the facts of what happened, and issues such as fairness, respect etc. (I teach younger students). Suzanne Lopez

[Anonymous]

As an individual who learns best by doing or experiencing, I gained a lot of insight into the population densities of nations like China and Japan when I was invited to the front of the room and was asked to stand on a portion of a newspaper along with six of my classmates. It caused me to consider the impacts of overcrowding upon behavior, living conditions and use of resources.
I feel that a nation whose population doubles in a span of just 29 years would face dramatic, social, economic and political challenges in the years to come. How will this nation provide services such as clean drinking water, health care, public safety or maintain a healthy living environment? How will this nation provide employment, fair wages and work conditions? How will this nation govern its population in a manner which meets the needs and interests of this expanding nation? Rob

[Anonymous]

Population Boom in China
My grandfather emigrated from Mexico in the 1930’s with the Bracero Program. He had fourteen kids but worked for minimum wages in the fields throughout California, and retired with a pretty handsome sum of money in his bank account. How? He put all of his kids to work as soon as they were able and kept their paychecks.

Case in Point: As was discussed Monday during Session II, there was a population boom in china between 1953 and 1982 that went from 583 million to over 1 billion. As was mentioned in the session, Mao saw strength in numbers. In connecting my grandfather and China, numbers meant more workers.

During the Korean war, as MacArthur approached the Yalu and the Chinese intervened, troops poured over in support for North Korea in large numbers. There are some accounts that many of these troops had no weapons. My 6th grade teacher, a Korean War Veteran, also used to comment that our troops would mow them down but they just kept coming. This intervention led to the stalemate that remains today in Korea.

These two examples, one of a family in poverty, and the other that showed military strength in numbers may help to contribute to the idea of why the population doubled in China between 1953 and 1982.

[Anonymous]

i am a little bumed out that we could only pick one movie...i liked all three that were shown to us, did not really need sub-titles, i enjoy just watching... :~

[Anonymous]

All our available on Netflix so you can have a huge movie watching fest when you go home!

[Anonymous]

A great primary document in understanding just how impotent China's position was per the British opium trade is Lin Zexu's letter to Queen Victoria imploring her to end Britain's participation in the trade. Lin was Beijing's representative to Guangzhou who was suppose to negotiate an end to the opium trade with the British East India Company. Not only is the fact that Lin must plead with Victoria fascinating, but the language in which he refers to the British (ie--"barabrians") gives students great insight as to how China viewed the outside world (the world outside the Middle Kingdom). Check it out--students usually find it pretty interesting.

Lin Zexu Letter to Queen Victoria

[Anonymous]

Clayton, I was wondering what you thought about the thesis Kenneth Pomeranz argues in "The Great Divergence"??? Maybe you could reference it in class tomorrow--thanks!

[Anonymous]

Great discussion today about the Ming and the Qing empires. I make a point of discussing Qing tolerance as a major reason for the longevity of the dynasty but I have failed to discuss how this tolerance came at the expense of being cosmopolitan and forward thinking. Qing conservatism was a factor in allowing Western Europe to not only catch up to China technologically, but to eventually surpass them. I think it would be a great lesson to engage our students in a What If? scenario. Maybe we could ask them how China may have been different if the Ming and the Qing allowed Zheng He to continue his journeys and had a more active trade relationship with Europe and the rest of the world during the mid-18th century and beyond. Would they still have lost the Opium Wars? Would the emperor still have received the British ambassador as a barbarian and asked him to perform the kowtow? Just a thought...
Lastly, something I would have liked to discuss more would have been the similarities and differences between Mongol rule and Manchu rule in China. It would make a good compare and contrast.

[Anonymous]

I think I remember seeing in our teacher's manual for our World History text an activity where students read this document and then respond by creating a ficticious response by the Queen. You can have students recall that this was the same queen that enacted laws to improve public health, etc. in her country and discuss her philosophy of humanity.

[Anonymous]

I enjoyed the presentation on Chinese philosophy. I have taught an activity where my students have created character collages--life size outlines of figures within and around which are words and visuals--of the Buddha, Confucius and Laozi to learn the basic tenets of the beliefs systems with which they are associated. The students really enjoy this activity.
It would be interesting to compare and contrast the philosophies of Han Fei (Legalism) and Macciavelli when it comes to governing. Rob

[Anonymous]

I am quite interested in 20th century China starting with the Boxer Rebellion. How much support did the Empress give to the Boxers? I suspect this was done quietly and without fanfare. In my U.S. History class, my students create visual metaphors to explain America's view towards China at this time and how the Chinese view America's role in their nation. The students have to provide rationale for their choices of metaphors. It is an effective activity in presenting America's growing role in world affairs during this period, but it also gives insight into how the native peoples are reacting to it. Primary sources on the Chinese reaction to America's proposed Open Door Policy? Rob

[Anonymous]

Truly, I never had a clear idea of why the emperor put up with and signed the Treaty of Nanjing. I now have a very clear (beginning and simplified but clear) idea of how China lost the trade wars.I still don't truly understand why a Scots was appointed. I know that some European countries elected and asked for a king from another country entirely. The appointment of a Scots does seem misguided. He understood, it was hoped, the British position. But, he was a subject of VR. I also had no idea that the communists and nationalists were in such a protracted struggle for such a long time.

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