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AnonymousI found the class very engaging and Dr. Schaberg's style enlightening. I was struck by how much time was spent on listening to our ideas and thoughts as he quietly led the discussion to where we needed to be to look at the poetry. I have a difficult time finding meaning in English poetry without missing the cultural history needed for the context in Chinese poetry. I am completely impressed by the talent and skill of those teachers present in this class and am eager to learn more from them. I used the theme of the Chinese poem and related it to the Beyonce song with one of my classes when I had a few extra minutes and if nothing else, a connection was made between us that I can use again in the future. I can't wait until our next meeting and the perspectives that will follow.
AnonymousI also agree with many of my classmates...the readings were difficult with the many unknown abstract meanings (for example-the first lines of the poems sometimes will include references to nature).
I found the battle poem the most fascinating. The motives and the references still can hold true today (military cadences and song).
However, I would still like to have more examples applicable to 7th graders. More (many more) examples would definitely draw out their interests. Unfortunately, I think we ran out of time Tuesday.
AnonymousIt’s really fun reading all of these posts. It really does extend the discussion beyond the seminar walls. During class, I expressed my own frustration about lacking the context to analyze the poetry in a traditional way. It was freeing to hear professor Shaberg explain that even great China scholars know very little about Chinese history from this time period. I think it will make using this poetry with students easier too. One of the characteristics of poetry is that we can impose our interpretations on it. That’s the fun part. Because the cultural context of these poems is more-or-less a mystery, we have license to let the meanings of them serve as blank slates.
I also liked opening the topic with a discussion of music and what purpose the lyric serves in society. It seems like we agreed that song is the voice of the masses; it teaches social norms; it is a component of language evolution; it promotes social harmony and shapes ideas about love.
AnonymousThis was a very useful session. Dr. Schaberg is a very adept at showing you how to connect the poetic techniques used in "The Book of Songs" to contemporary writing. It is always an uplifting experience for me when I have the opportunity to talk to adults about the deeper meanings of what we deal with in our teaching. Often I don't have the time to think about what is going on in any meaningful way.
I am beginning in the next two weeks to deal with a unit on recurring themes. Poetry will be used for my eighth grade students and I hope to augment the text I have to use with two of the poems from the materials we read. Should be fun.
AnonymousI definitely agree with those of you who wish we had more cultural context for the poems we read and discussed. This was a bit frustrating to me. But I tried to remind myself that reading a poem from a cultural/historical perspective is only one approach. Some of you mentioned the value of reading the poems with theme in mind. This, I think, could be valuable. I particularly liked the courtship poems because I think my 9th and 10th grade students can relate so easily to the ideas of young love and the nervousness it entails.
My favorite of the poems we read, however, was the one about war that we discussed in class. I think the surprise of discovering the speaker in the poem is dead makes it very unique. It would also provide a very interesting counter to "Dulce et Decorum Est," a poem we read and discussed in my AP Literature class last week. Have ideas about the glory of war changed? Or has the idea that war is glorious always been a lie, as "Dulce" suggests? I'm interested to learn more about how the ancient Chinese people would have viewed this.
AnonymousIt was quite a treat to spend time with Professor Schaberg and Chinese poetry, but like many of you, I was frustrated with the lack of clarity in the poems. The lack of cultural context - especially for the time when the poems were written - made it difficult to analyze the works. I mean, who would have guessed that the throwing of fruit was a sign of affection? The poems, perhaps because of their lack of context, certainly generated some lively discussions and interpretations. I would use some of these with students in stages: first students would be asked to read the poem and jot down some impressions. After sharing ideas, students would be asked to jot down any new insights into the poem, then share out again, and after that, give the context of the poem and have students reflect how the new information changes their interpretation of the poem. Analyzing poetry can be difficult for students of any age, especially when looking for the "right" answer. As I learned from Dr. Schaberg, we are really only guessing about the context of the poems based on the little we know about the time period in which they were written.
AnonymousI love the fact that participants were able to expound on the poems presented by Professor Schaberg.
Poetry reveals aspects of Chinese expressions of emotion that heretofore, I had not known.
Although I am not a poetry aficiando, I appreciate its direct relation to Chinese history and cultural development.
AnonymousI definitely agree with Josh in regards to adding music as well. I'm not sure there is a combination of music/poetry out there that would be somehow applicable to the class. When we were learning about film, i think that would add another element to our classroom. My students most def. respond to music!
AnonymousAs I was preparing my lesson plan for the seminar, my hunting for materials brought me to a web site that was extremely useful. I am interested in the poetry of these cultures, and since recurring theme is the language arts unit I teach at the time when East Asia is covered in 7th grade history it seemed a natural correlation to use. Here is the web site which contains an excellent collection of translated poems from the earliest Book of Songs to those written in the Tang dynasty. Anyone doing a lesson plan on poetry should avail themselves of this site.
AnonymousI greatly enjoyed the "Using Poetry" session and found that I do the same thing you do, which is to "use my own culture as the context for interpretation." The poem "Quince" (Mao 64) for instance would be useful as I teach "Romeo and Juliet" to my ninth graders.
In a unit that all 9th and 10th graders must complete for expository writing, one common, standards based assignment is a 'compare & contrast' essay. The poem "Quince" would provide an excellent basis of comparison for the famous balcony scene in "Romeo and Juliet." Students will sharpen their skills by observing the similarities and differences between the various displays of love as they are depicted in these two works. Finally, they might write about how these exchanges of vows and love tokens differ from the vows taken in their own cultures and in their present day experiences.
I agree that it was wonderful having Dr. Schaberg there to share his expertise. I think my students will have much to gain from the use of these poems and the information I gained from this session will help guide them.
AnonymousAs a grammar exercise, I used the poems "Quince" (Mao 64) and "The Kingdom's Dead" ("Guoshang," from Chuci, "Songs of Chu") to help my students practice proper comma usage. I started by having my students review the basic rules of comma usage which I took from the following link:
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/02/
Then I typed out each poem on a half sheet of paper without any punctuation at all. The students copied the first five rules from the link and used their knowledge of these rules to help them decide where to insert the commas.
I think this assignment worked well because, thanks to the wonderful resource notebook I received at this seminar, I was able to show my students the way the poems look in English and in Chinese. This gave me an opportunity to discuss, not only the art of poetry, but of translation. I pointed out, that even though all of the students in the class are trying to follow the same rules, not all the finished products have to look exactly alike. Finally, I showed them how punctuation was used by Arthur Waley and Stephen Owen. Most of my students were able to do a pretty good job of applying the comma rules we learned. This was also a good way to get the students interested in discussing the poems.
AnonymousI really like that idea. Students are much more willing to complete a puzzle than worksheets with boring sentences where they have to add commas. Also with this one exercise students are learning much more than comma usage. They are learning about other grammar structure, possible career choices and seeing how learning these rules is useful in real life. Knowledge is often kept compartmentalized and how great is it when we as teachers can open the doors to show how it all relates. Great job!
AnonymousThanks to jdavidman for the suggestion about using the poems as tool for teaching grammar. I definitely would not have thought of the connection, but it's a great idea!
AnonymousI appreciate your suggestion and the web link. I wouldn't have thought of using Chinese poetry for grammar review, but it certainly sounds interesting and challenging. Besides, thsi way you cover two curriculum strands: writing conventions and poetry analysis.