5/9 - Pitelka - Women in East Asian History
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May 10, 2009 at 6:29 am #4958
Rob_Hugo@PortNW
KeymasterHi everyone,
Please share your thoughts about our May 9 afternoon session, "Women in East Asian History," by Professor Morgan Pitelka, by replying to this post.
-Miranda
May 10, 2009 at 7:48 am #28556Anonymous
GuestPitelka kind of cracks me up. He riminds me of myself as a teacher. He is so into his subject matter that he can get you interested in things that you thought you had no interest in. I don't mean women's roles in history however. I am always interested in that. I am always looking for how women effected history. It is very helpful in order to keep the girls involved in my classes. I have a painting that some students did of Tome the samurai in my room and a big picture and reference to Empress Wu on my medieval timeline.
GG
May 10, 2009 at 8:59 am #28557GuestMy favorite part of this lecture was Prof. Pitelka's mini-lesson on taking phenomena within their historical contexts. His discussion of footbinding was great for several reasons: I learned far more about the subject itself, I learned about the context, and I had the opportunity to decide for myself whether I thought the practice was as "barbaric" as I had originally been taught. That kind of lesson is helpful regardless of subject matter, and I think it is extremely important that we keep teaching it to our students.
May 10, 2009 at 11:48 am #28558GuestI thought that both of Saturday's sessions really highlighted the strong impact of Confucianism on society across East Asia. I thought it was really interesting to see that women in Japan tended to have more power and rights than women in China; Professor Pitelka suggested that this was because Confucianism was not as strong in Japan as it was in China because Confucianism didn't reach Japan until the middle ages, and by this time Japan had already established many of their own norms.
I think it would be interesting to have students look at the impact of Confucianism on society in China, Korea, and Japan, and then analyze which society they would prefer to live in as a result of these factors. You could also have students compare the way society changed in terms of Confucian values over time, or critique the extent to which certain aspects of society reflect or don't reflect Confucian values today.[Edit by="kringewald on May 10, 7:00:17 PM"][/Edit]May 10, 2009 at 1:46 pm #28559GuestProf, Pitelka is very interesting and brings a balance to history. He's so right, I can get emotional about the treatment of women in the past (and I am NOT a feminist). We must remember, as he said, how this fit in its historical context. It was nice to hear that women did have some freedoms but sad to hear of "being used" and not treated with the same respect as men. Today, women have little sense of difference from a man, so there needs to be balance, although we have made significant strides.
See attached L.A. Times articles on:
Bound Feet
Secret language of women - China[Edit by="sgregg on May 10, 8:49:26 PM"][/Edit]May 10, 2009 at 1:52 pm #28560GuestThe attachments aren't taking, so I will try again, one post at a time.
Bound feet - two posts
Secret language of women - two posts[Edit by="sgregg on May 10, 8:54:55 PM"][/Edit]May 10, 2009 at 1:57 pm #28561GuestBound feet 2
May 10, 2009 at 1:58 pm #28562GuestSecret language of women - China
May 10, 2009 at 1:59 pm #28563GuestSecret language of women 2
May 11, 2009 at 3:28 am #28564GuestProfessor Pitelka's classification of family types in China, Korea , and Japan helped me better understand the issues. Presenting this to our classes in the same way, around clan, lineage, and nuclear family might help our students as well.
The "exception to the rule stories" are difficult to escape. Even Professor Pitelka used a few of these (e.g. Empress Wu and Tomoe). The trick is to first present the "rule" and then show how these women crossed the boundaries and what that tells us about what was going on at the time.
Why do we use euphemisms in some circumstances, but not in others? Doesn't "sexually vulnerable" mean society was afraid of women being independent, or possiblly of being raped? What's the difference between "concubine," "courtesan," "prostitute," and "comfort woman?" The last euphemism is probably the worst because they were sex slaves. I guess movie-goers wouldn't flock to see "Farewell My Prostitute."
Footbinding as "competitive grooming." I'm curious as to a feminist backlash against Ebrey...has this happened? How strong are her findings and why had other historians not picked up on this earlier?
Were men actually afraid of the female vampires Professor Pitelka mentioned?
[Edit by="mlloyd on May 11, 10:29:50 AM"][/Edit]
May 12, 2009 at 2:20 am #28565GuestWell I guess that China wasn’t kidding when it called itself the “Middle Kingdom!” Chinese culture, Confucianism, and Chinese language cast such grand shadows and were so readily shared that all of East Asia was massively influenced by them. This lecture really drove that point home. This is probably because of the format, but beyond that, this whole topic was very important. I grew up in feminist higher education, UC Davis and Pacific Oaks College. I some times found myself feeling uncomfortable with Professor Pitelka’s “patriarchal apologist” stance, but that was just my over developed sense of gender-guilt. I know how important it is to look at these societies from a place of fact and detachment. We have to examine how history was not how we would have liked it to be. It is futile to judge a time and a place that is long gone with 21st Century ethics and mores, and it makes us feel unjustly superior which is counter productive to progress toward greater gender equality. Additionally, Professor Pitelka’s point about the “hero worship” of exceptional women in these society’s with such strict male dominated, gender roles is well taken. Though these women are interesting because they were so rare, they tell us little about women in these societies in general. About the only thing that the exceptions tell us is that there are reasons why lives like theirs were so rare.
May 12, 2009 at 7:47 am #28566GuestBoy, who knew women could stir up such controversy! The posts on this topic so far have stirred so many thoughts I am not quite sure where to begin. I love Pitelka's talks. It is clear that he loves his topics and I aspire to emit that much passion about my subjects. I am sure I still have a long way to go, since I am still trying to figure out what it is I am teaching!
Looking at these exceptions to the rule in the greater scheme of things is definately the way to go. History is often about the exception and not the rule. Those are the stories we are more fascinated with. Also looking at "barbaric" practices around the world in context also helps put these into perspective.
I think we are all aware that we must teach history in context and include the common person and not just the elite. Our textbooks have not reached this yet, so it is up to us to ensure our students are getting a clearer picture of these events than we received in school.
May 14, 2009 at 1:34 am #28567GuestIt is unfortunate that the talent in women has been buried underneath centuries old
(ignorant) beliefs of female inferiority (e.g., bound feet for beauty?!?!?!? What the heck!!!).All women are not born with a compliant nature. These are the women who dare to
endure the taunts, rejection, and persecution to rise above the constraints of a
very patriarchal, traditionalist society. It is they who break through these "glass ceilings"
to pave the way for others to break out of their respective shells.As Professor Piteka said some women wait until they are older (after they have raised their kids,
and taken care of their husbands), before they become assertive or aggressive.[Edit by="cwatson on May 14, 8:36:32 AM"][/Edit]
May 14, 2009 at 2:26 am #28568GuestAfter reading the "Tan'gun Creation Myth," I am led to believe that
the writer uses these gross characterizations of women to mask his (their) own
fear of them.Is Confucianism from China to blame for this fear of women which manifests itself
in vitriolic myths? Or is it part of the hierarchial society which believes that
everyone stays in their place in order for society to function properly
and as a result, women become objectified for the purposes of child bearing and copulation?Fortunately, women have more choices today. For example, in the
late 1990s, I heard a news report that more Japanese women are waiting until their 30s
before getting married. Many Koreans and Chinese have immigrated to Canada or the United States
to break out of their country's educational and gender molds.May 14, 2009 at 5:01 am #28569GuestProf. Pitelka is an amazing instructor. I was captivated the entire time and his wit and humor kept the energy level up throughout what was a long day. I am very interested in using some of the material he covered in my own classrooms and help both my male and female students grasp the difficulties and successes faced by Asian women. Too often, we resort to looking at ethnic, cultural, or gender studies through the lens of the exceptional human beings that are not the norm. Prof. Pitelka not only shed some light on that mistake but then attempted to do the opposite and focus on the ordinary lives of women who worked hard, raised children for for equity and equality and those who acquiesced to the system - the same way that oppressed men and women the world over continue to do.
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