December 13 - Dube - Late Imperial China

[Anonymous]

Thanks Becca! This is great - I will use this in my economics lesson, I will send it to you too. Peace
- Mike

[Anonymous]

I was reading Walt's reply when it occured to me that I can use portions of this lecture when teaching mythology and archetypes in literature. I often talk to my students about the influence of one culture on another, plus the creation of community around myths, religion, and even science. I have students who are Buddhists, Christian, Muslim, and Hindu, so I think this may be an interesting addition to the research I have them do on their own indigenous ancestors. I don't know how just yet...I'm going to have to go back and re-read through my notes and the literature, but I will enjoy the adventure.

I also believe I'll be able to incorporate my notes/the readings about Women and Family in Imperial China...this may be another piece that has connections with Poisonwood Bible and The Handmaid's Tale.

[Anonymous]

When I was in college I wrote a thesis on the US-China Relationship and since that experience I have been intrigued by the relationship. This last lecture was really interesting and i wonder what Clay expects the relationship to look like in the next 5 and 10 years and so on. I am concerned and disappointed in some ways and trying to maintain some hopefulness. Recently, National Geographic had and entire issue dedicated to China. While I maintain my concern and skepticism, having learned about the rise of this empire and some of the history of the country, I am inclined to hold judgment. If there was one thing I would have loved to talk more about during the seminar it would be this relationship.

[Anonymous]

As always, this was another comprehensive and informative session from Clay. I probably took more notes in this session than any other.

I enjoyed Clay's coverage of Late Imperial Chinese history from 960 to 1911 and his recap of the other Imperial periods for context and perspective. Also, I liked Clay's profile of particular individuals, such as Genghis Khan, Khubulai Khan, and Marco Polo. I even enjoyed learning completely unfamiliar information, such as the the presence and role of persons who observed non-Chinese religions, such as Matteo Ricci (Jesuit) in the late 16th century and Zheng He, a Chinese convert to Islam in the late 13th century-early14th century.

This session was a great ending to the series of class sessions. It was clear to me that Clay could have filled additional class dates with further material. Thoroughly informative.

[Anonymous]

The fact that China created paper currency out of necessity during the Song dynasty, because their economy was so large but they were so “money poor,” is an incredible fact. Students often question in my economics class “why, exactly, do our pieces of paper with dead presidents on it have value?” The example of China during the Song dynasty offers a really cool blueprint to explain the development of currency. Does anyone have any sources or lesson plans that would apply to currency development during the Song dynasty?

[Anonymous]

“After the Song era, China would not reach the same levels of production until 1960.” I don’t know about anyone else, but that fact just blew my mind. I know he said that stat applied to metal production, but does anyone know if that applies to agricultural production as well?

[Anonymous]

The Mongol social structure placed the northern Chinese over the southern Chinese. I am ignorant of inner Chinese ethnic groups, but would this roughly equate to Manchurian Chinese over Han Chinese?

[Anonymous]

Branching off of my last question, I was wondering if in modern China, Han Chinese do not consider Manchu real Chinese? Do Manchu people consider themselves distinct from the rest of China, or is more cultural blending occurring with Mandarin as the language of the state?

[Anonymous]

I was reading about the different languages in China, and it seems as if there are marked differences between them. I read that Cantonese is spoken in Hong Kong and Mandarin is spoken in Beijing. Do most people in Hong Kong understand Mandarin because it is the language of the state, or is there a resistance to it? I had a student from Hong Kong last year who talked disparagingly about mainland China – is this a result of the language disconnect? Is this common? Are minority language groups discriminated against? I am very interested in this and found much useful information looking this topic up on wikipedia if anyone is interested.

[Anonymous]

The Manchu Qing government was a “light” government. Had the government been more aggressive they may not have lasted as long, nevertheless the Manchu language and culture may have persisted as a result. I know this is engaging in historical ‘Monday morning quarterbacking,” but it is interesting to note that the Manchu language is almost extinct and Manchu people have assimilated into predominant Chinese culture. This, in my opinion, is similar to the Mongols in the Middle East, who were a more accommodating “light” government and as a result have not endured culturally within the region.

[clay dube]

Great questions / comments about the differences among Chinese dialects. Those differences are enormous - a Cantonese speaker can't talk with a Mandarin speaker and be understood. If both are literate (and that is the norm today), they will write things out and have no problem being understood. This reminds us of how powerful a force a standard writing system can be. This might be the most important governmental tool adopted by the Qin 2,200 years ago.

There are, it should be noted, many other languages than Chinese that are spoken within China. Tibetan, Mongolian, and Uyghur are the best known but there are dozens more. Mandarin is taught everywhere and the power of tv, films, and music have done much to increase general understanding of Mandarin, even among peoples who don't speak it in every day life.

[clay dube]

I hope that we can continue this conversation -- via the forum and at later workshops. US-China ties are crucial for the future of not just our two countries but the world as a whole. We have just posted video lectures on the subject and would love it if folks would watch and talk about them. Also - we'd love your comments on the US-China relations documentary that we distributed to all participants. The individual segments are also available on YouTube. Links:

Conference talks -- especially the presentation by Tom Christensen
http://china.usc.edu/ShowArticle.aspx?articleID=1329

Documentary
http://china.usc.edu/ShowArticle.aspx?articleID=1191

YouTube
A higher quality version of the documentary is available at our YouTube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/uschinainstitute

Please view any or all of these and offer up your comments in the Contemporary China thread in the Asia in My Classroom forum:
http://uschinaforum.usc.edu/showpost.aspx?PostID=6185

[Anonymous]

Great videos. In my economics class we will be talking about macro-economic policy and globalization, and I will use "tensions over trade" to hammer home the importance of Asia to my students. With almost 50% of our huge national debt being held by China and Japan, our students must understand the critical importance of Asia or we will have failed a generation.

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