early east asia

[clay dube]

Please share any comments you have regarding the readings and seminar discussion of philosophical/religious traditions and socio-political organization in East Asia before 1800.

[Anonymous]

more later[Edit by="jmorgan on Aug 3, 6:02:09 PM"][/Edit]
Nihao,

My first class in J.C. that I really loved was philosophy (western of course) so I really enjoyed the AM session. I think understanding Confucious' beliefs, "looking backwards" and promoting the reciprical relationships really explains much of the Asian culture today. If there was a similar philosophy deriving in the west, our society I am sure, would be much stronger in the areas of respect for parents, the elderly, authority and in general manners! I will also keep with me the question "Was there a Xia Dynasty"? Interesting to think that history may be re-written in the next century!

The explanation of "Shang Di" was great. How leaders in Ancient China were able to establish "Charismatic Power" was something I had never thought about! It's transformation into the Mandate of Heaven is crystal clear to me now.

As for Confucionism, I will keep with me the concept of "rectification of names" when discussing this subject with my students. Hmmm, "student", defined- must work hard, must show respect for classmates and peers, must show respect for teacher, administrators, school and property etc.... I wonder how my students will react to rectifying that name within their own life! My students have had an interest in Confucious, but relating his life story- beginning at 15 etc. will surely capture their imaginations even more.

An interesting activity, or project mentioned that I will try and incorporate is a debate, meeting or event placing Socrates, Buddah and Confucious together at one time. It is fascinating to think of these three historical giants ever meeting!

For my own understanding of Confucionism, I think that the explanation of his successors, Mencius and then Xunzi enriched me the most. The progression of thought, the "widening of the stream" of discussions was fascinating. I think most people believe that there was never any modification of Confucious' Analalects. It shows how within the school of thought, conflicts and other opinions existed. I can't wait to share this new insight with my students. I think they will appreciate the optimistic belief that people can be made better through education and ritual (study and homework). They are AP of course.

How Zunxi's beliefs led to the Han Fei and Li Si and the establishment of legalism was great! It showed a clear development and justification for the establishment of the tight centralized control that characterized China before and in many ways after the 1900's. The explanation of Shang Yang and the inheritance practice were fascinating. I will definitely spend more time discussing primageniture v. unigeniture and their effects this year. Inheritance is something that shapes all societies.

The brief discussion on Daoism and Buddhism was well done. It answered many questions for me as to how and why these philosophies were able to gain a foothold and coexist with Confucionism. The synergistic relationships between the Asian philosophies puzzles many in the West. Mo Zi and Daoism, and the arrival of Buddhism can be better understood when seen in the era of divisions and conflict within the Chinese empire. The brief, but to the point explanations given by Clay far surpassed the explanations of my AP textbook! Bravo 😀

Keepers:

Numeric literacy is important in history (relating to demographic data)

Ancient China's population was greater than that of all Europe

Website: Strangemaps- check it out

Demonstrate your knowledge not by the answers on your test, but by the questions you ask.

It's more important to be worthy of office, than to have it. Confucious

Rule of 72. Determines doubling. Rate of increase/72 =number of years to double population

Mantra for China today- Western development.

China's political system defined: Socialism with Chinese characteristics, or "Socialized Market"

China embraces 56 nationalities.

Tien (heaven) Sha (all under) : All under Heaven

Do nothing and nothing will be left undone. Daoism

When you make laws, you create criminals. Daoism

You need to govern like you cook a small fish- quickly.

TTFN

M-W
[Edit by="jmorgan on Aug 4, 7:39:23 AM"][/Edit]

[Anonymous]

more later[Edit by="jmorgan on Aug 3, 6:03:45 PM"][/Edit]
The discussion of China in the 1800's can be better understood with the Chinese Dynasty song. sung to the French "Frer Jacque"

Shang, Zhou,Qin, Han
Shang , Zhou, Qin, Han

Sui, Tang, Song
Sui, Tang, Song

Yuan, Ming, Qing, Republic
Yuan, Ming, Qing, Republic

Mao Zedong, Deng Zao Ping

The discussion in the afternoon skipped over the Yuan and Ming Dynasties. Just keep in mind the Yuan was the dynasty run by the Mongols and established by Ghenghis Khan. The Mongols had established an empire that included the "Golden Horde" that laid claim to much of Russia and the Khanates that governed the Indian Ocean regions. All roads for tribute led to China and the Mongols protected the silk road and kept it open for trade.

The Ming overthrew the Mongols and established the great artistic and mercantile tradition of Chinese goods. Porcelain and silk flowed, but the silk road trade eroded when the Mongol "highway patrol" ceased to exist. As Clay said, the rulers grew lazy and their maintenance of the infrastructure lagged causing discontent.

The history of China is one of change. The Manchus when they came to power after the overthrow of the Ming, were just another elite class to the average Chinese. Like the Mongols, as long as the Manchus left the core of society alone- Confucianism, the average person might not even notice a change. Its like having your mortgage bought by another bank. You just send payment to another company.

The change for the Manchu leaders China had never faced before was the external pressures from a modernizing Russia, and of course the West. The missionary movement into China also posed a threat of destabilizing control. Confucianism is a very good philosophy if you are an emperor. You do what your position requires and the top of the relational ladder is your duty to him (or her). Missionaries were used by the Chinese to gather info from the West, but for groups like the Boxers, they were seen as of course foreigners and represented change - not for the better. China was rich, but as Clay said "they were vulnerable to the world".

If you think like the emperor (dragon or phoenix) seeing the internal and external threats to your power helps one to understand their reasoning and policies. As long as you got the true information from around your kingdom, you could make the reasonably right call. Some of the intellectuals and your advisors might not want to give you the true story in order to keep their positions or get richer.

The discussion on the Opium War and first colonies was straight forward. The explanation as to how it impacted tax collection was great! I had understood it to be that the emperor didn't want his workers stoned and unproductive- but in reality it was over -of course- CA$H. When opium affected the tax paying ability of the masses- thats when the Dragon acted.

I loved the movie "To Live". The scenes that stick out in my mind are the forced enlistment of the peasants by the KMT and how the hero survives the war. I also felt the birth scene with the Red Guard "Doctors" spoke volumes about Mao's strategy for using the youth to create his new communist system. If you don't know, Mao disbanded the Red Guard because they became too radical and outlived their usefulness for him. I was apprehensive at the end of the movie that something would happen politically to the son-in - law, but he must have been a middle of the road guardsman - not brutal enough to make enemies, and not so "wise in his own eyes" to take advantage of the system and get rich.

Keepers

China towns- "place where the Tang people live".

Can't really see the Great Wall from space.

China is a "Rags to Riches" story

Writing and maps are a technology.

Internal and external forces caused the traumatic 19th century in China

Treat wars in 3 sentences- students want to wallow in the blood.

Growth and development are not the same. Development is doing more with less. China lacked development.

Pearl Buck's parents were survivors of the Boxer Rebellion

Since 13th century, China's standard of living was at a plateau (flat)

A letter to the emperor was called a "memorial"

Lord McCartney from Britain would not "Kow Tow" before the emperor.

Qin imperial administrators per counties = 1 per 250,000 people.

Gong Li ROCKS!!!

[Edit by="jmorgan on Aug 5, 7:12:34 AM"][/Edit]
[Edit by="jmorgan on Aug 5, 7:30:53 AM"][/Edit]

[Anonymous]

i love the class, learning lots just feel alittle overwhelmed....s-l-o-w d-o-w-n a little, thanks

[Anonymous]

I really enjoyed both the morning and afternoon sessions. The chronological discussion of the major Chines philosophies/traditions are a major component of the AP program in world history and it is always a struggle for sophomores to comprehend. I particularlu enjoyed how simple Clay made them seem by incorporating just a few of the major role players into each philosophy.
The morning session was a good primer on Chinese demographics and the role that population plays in both the past and present difficulties facing poltical leaders and the general population.
I'm really looking forward to the movie tonight!

[Anonymous]

to imorgan, thanks for the post, ur notes rock.

[Anonymous]

In discussing the major Chinese philosophies this morning and early afternoon, I was thinking about how I can include these into my first unit of world history on the foundations of democracy. Yes, because of state standards, the class is Eurocentric by default, however I think that by exposing students to political philosophies of China (among other countries) into this first unit, and consequently expanding on what we normally do (contributions of Greece, Rome, England, US, French) I can set a precedent early on that we'll indeed be investigating world history.

The very first lesson we have is a sort of desert island simulation and instead of having students create their own type of government and explaining the rationale behind their choices (and from there naming the types of governments that they created), I am instead going to give them different political philosophies and have them work out how this type of philosophy would influence how the insland would function. I can include Greek and Roman ideas, but also Confucianism, Legalism, and Daoism too. (Maybe even Maoism!) This is just me thinking aloud here but if the idea is to expose them to types of governments, then why just stick with what the book includes (Euro focused examples)?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for posting these!

[Anonymous]

Clay said something that struck me this morning, and it is because I too struggle with this. In explaining about how to calculate the rate of population growth, I felt like I was back in high school, where anything with numbers and formulas was tough for me. Yes, we absolutely need to include this as a skill into our curriculum and I need more training for sure. Anyone else feel this way? Teaching DBQs with all sorts of charts, etc. is great for our students...we just need to include more of this in the so-called "regular" classes. I am guilty of not doing this for sure.

[Anonymous]

I do something similar to what Jeanne does in her class with the desert island simulation. In groups, I ask my students to be Qin Shihuang and choose which philisophical/religious system--Confucianism, Legalism, Daoism--they think will best serve China at the end of the Zhou and beginning of the Qin. They can either choose one system or form two or more of them into a hybrid but they have to justify the rationale behind their selection--obviously. The most important variable in this activity is to give them good historical background about the fragmentation and warring China had endured during the Zhou and up until this time. Oh, you have to give them a good backgroundof each system too!!!

[Anonymous]

I am so glad that Clay mentioned the story of "Meng Mu Three-Move" this morning. I think it's a great drama idea for middle school students to learn China's great philosopher. As a matter of fact, it had been a very popular story for kids in China and Taiwan. When Mencius was young, his mother paid much attention to his education. They first lived next to the cemetery. Mencius and the neighborhood kids played the game, handling the funeral. Mencius' mom saw and she said, "I can not let my son live here." She decided to move. They moved to Market where butchers slaughtered pigs. Mencius with his friends imitated the process of doing the business. Mencius' mom saw and she said, "This place is not good for my child to live." They moved again. This time, they moved next to a school where Mencius became an eager learner. The story teaches kids they should be close to good friends and learn good habits. Also, the environment can change a person's tastes and habits, so they should always be wise to choose the right surrounding.

p.s. Thirty five years ago, I was the slaughtered swine in my 7th grade play while we learned the Book of Mencius.

[Anonymous]

I appreciate how clearly the information on the major religions was presented. In 6th grade social studies we take a brief look at Confucianism, but I always felt my information was lacking. Thanks Clay...this information will be added to my teaching notes on the subject.
Suzanne Lopez

[Anonymous]

Is is a revelation to me that the Chinese kept circling back to Confucius. I am glad you explained it as the "I stand with these guys" syndrome. My mother and dad used to call it wrapping yourself in the flag. That sounds a little harsh, but I believe it pretty accurate. The neolithic portion was very exciting to me, especially the dynasty that may or may not have been a separate entity. There is an exhibition in NYC this summer I wish I could have seen. It is about a newly unearthed civilization in the Balkans called "Old Europe". No written language, no wheels. However, second story housing in apartments, gold work that is superior to the contemporary civilizations and much more. It was in THE NEW YORKER, of course. But, I am repeatedly struck by how similar we are. My Dad explained that the Chinese see themselves as a drop of water in a greater ocean and a part of that, while we see ourselves as individual souls. Sounds Buddhist. . Yes, my Dad did travel extensively in China, the coast anyway. The first time when he was 17.

[Anonymous]

When Clay showed the power point of Confucius' teaching in 论语（Lun Yu），again it fleshed my memory. It was a famous passage that almost every middle school student in Taiwan can recite. Confucius was expressing life goals at different stage. It says when you reach 15 years old, you should be determined to learn. When you are thirty years old, you are supposed to be independent. When 40, you will not be feeling puzzled of outside world. When 50, you know what your fate is.(I should speed up my process to reach this goal.) When 60, you can go in and listen to different views. When 70, you may do whatever you desire but will not exceed the boundary. The way Confucius presented sounds very much like a poem. If I can make it into a folksong, it should be a great idea to include in my curriculum for middle school Mandarin teaching.
p.s. Thanks to Mark and John for sharing the song in class. I enjoy it very much!!

[Anonymous]

Confucius said if an individual can practice reverence, generosity, truthfulness, diligence, and kindness, he is a man of humanity. If a person acts with reverence, he will not be insulted. If he is generous, he will win over the people. If he is truthful, he will be trusted by people. If he is diligent, he will have great achievements. If he is kind, he will be able to influence others.

I will definitely share this with my kids and students.

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