July 30 - Reading Assignments - Discussion

[Rob_Hugo@PortNW]

Hi everyone,

Please use this thread to post questions and discussion on your reading assignments for Wednesday, July 29:

- Reform Era China
- China and the World

-Miranda

[Anonymous]

It seemed to me that from the readings the 1989 Tiananmen Square incident had roots that were farther reaching than I ever knew. I was completely unaware of this "Democracy Wall" in the 1970s that seemed to greatly upset the Party leaders, who realized allowing it was a "mistake" to allow the wall to remain up for as long as it did. I would like to know more about this "Wall"...how did it get started? Why did the government not smash it to pieces immediately? How much of an impact did this have on people's belief that democracy was necessary for China to advance? Did Nixon's visit to China have any impact on the increased desire among Chinese citizens to have democracy due to increased trade and communication?

It is interesting to note with regards to Tiananmen Square, the huge disparity in the arguments of the students and the argument of Deng. The students make claims of corruption, nepotism, oppression, poor pay for soldiers, and more while Deng simplifies his argument into stating the students want to destroy socialism and overthrow the government. I can understand why and how both sides came up with their arguments, to convince the largest group to side with them. I am unclear about exactly what happened in June of 1989 when Deng ordered the Square cleared by the military. Were there any groups of soldiers who sided with the students against the government? How successful were these 'revolts' in and outside of Beijing? In this day and age, I wonder how long and how successful China's government can be regarding the coverup of this incident...

[Anonymous]

A year ago I asked my students a question. How many of them have known the shocking news of the killing field of the June Fourth Tian-An Men student movement for a "new democracy?" The response from the "few" leaders of the Chinese communist's, socialist's government was to use the gun power to kill all without weapons to protect themselves.

The feedback I got from my students at that time was: We don't know anything about this incident. I could not believe it. Because it shows that as an educator I have a mission to convey and deliver what I believe and what the whole world saw on the news media. Although Chinese student body might have succeeded in accomplishing what they wanted to accomplish at the first place if they used the right "communication channels."

If you go to Roman, you have to learn Roman's way to get around. I think it would be helpful to conduct a constructive dialogue with Chinese leaders in the future. After all, they are telling the Chinese people what direction is "politically, economically and culturally right" for them. Don't you think so?? julie

[Anonymous]

I thought Deng's comment, "This was bound to happen sooner or later," was interesting. It it was bound to happen, had they planned different scenarios as to how to handle it? Another statement he had seemed linked to some of the other comments we have read from the past. When he is talking about the students' movement he says, "Their goal was to establish a bourgeiois republic entirely dependent on the West. . ." After our talks about imperialism, foreigners and the west in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, it seems to play along the same lines: Don't trust foreigners. Look what they have done to us in the past. A new republic would be bourgeiois and dependent i.e. controlled by Westerners. These are age old warnings.

[Anonymous]

Yearnings

I read this story and immediately related it to the showing of Roots here in the US in the 1970”s. With people hurrying home to watch the show and thousands glued to their TV. I thought of this because the showing of Yearning was a similar phenomenon, people hurrying home to watch their TV. The Yearning phenomenon was able to change a person thinking just as Roots was able to do. With Roots African Americans felt a sense of pride, while others looked at the period of slavery with a new understanding. In China, the broadcast of the Yearning was able to change the opinion of the people to be more favorable toward the government, following the Tiananmen massacre. It also helped that Li Ruihuan the overseer of national ideology embraced the show, using it to “push his moderate line.” The series also helped the career of Zheng Wanlong who was suspected of being involved in the Tiananmen demonstration, is now respected.

I would love to see this series!

[Anonymous]

Now these readings I could use in class -

I agree with Kathryn the viewers were acting more Western glued to their TVs. I also saw a more systemic shifts behind the scenes. The creators collaborative process to "please the audience or perish" instead of worrying about getting sensors permission. After reading the first article about reporting on migrant workers I was wondering why there wasn't a govt. agent in the writers room or on set. Using tortured stereotypes may have inadvertently echoed political propaganda, but it was written for sheer entertainment - sounded like my husbands favorite show 24. It really felt like we had turned a corner at the end when the daily interrogation of the Tienamen Square protestor is suddenly cut short when they discover he is the famous writer. Just another celebrity getting off the hook.

LOVED the Gilded Age story. Bella reminds me of my daughter. I think my students would love to find out what life would be like for them if they grew up in a different country. I began to feel very worried for this stressed out generation that seemed increasingly divorced from their parents and grandparents. The teacher's comment at the end framed the giant generational gap a little bit more for me. "Maybe they will try something - dye their hair, or pierce an ear - but in the their bones, they are very traditional." So does that mean they will act Western, but think traditional?

All of these articles were about the reactions to China's seemingly "tectonic" changes in the last 10 years. People are literally trying to figure out how to make space for the New China; from the neighborhoods along Front Gate Avenue to the Pacific Rim. They also seem to be figuring out how they benefit from China's new found prosperity; better pay out for Fresh Fish Junction, better trade deal for Australia, or better negotiating partner for North Korea.

Before this class I thought of China as a monolithic juggernaut - and to be honest I was a more than a little worried that they would cash in their T-Bills and just take over the U.S. Now I see that China is struggling to keep itself together as it hurtles forward at a breakneck speed. They are interdepend on regional trading partners including the U.S. And finding out that they too have problems; limited resources, aging population, Uyghurs, Taiwan - is somewhat of a relief.

[Anonymous]

The story of Bella is something our students would like to read. Here is someone their age they can relate to. The things her parents do for her, it makes me wonder whether China will be raising a generation of spoiled urban children, not unlike some of the kids in my own neighborhood, who though nice, are used to having so much without a struggle or earning it. I also worry about these children, Chinese, or American who have every minute of their lives planned out for them: tutors, piano, dance, or soccer. How do they become creative and truly independent with no free time to interact, make decisions, make mistakes, and learn how to deal with them on their own?

The selection from, A Year Without Made in China: I saw the author interviewed on Oprah yes, it was on Oprah about one year ago. She explained how difficult it was. To buy her daughter's shoes she had to send for shoes from Italy. In the selection she says shopping became meaningful. In the interview she said that shopping became time consuming and expensive. Related to this, when the American pilots were downed over China a few years ago, and were being held, my husband jokingly said we should make banners that read, "Support our Military. Boycott Walmart," and stand outside the local Walmart and see how many shoppers actually "got it."

[Anonymous]

Democracy Wall Movement and Tiananmen Square Protest—I'm surprised I did not hear about this while in China or see it for that matter. I'm curious to learn more about its history. The Tiananmen Square protest still puzzles me. I was a student in Hungary 1989-90 and was quite wrapped up in the wave of democracy and reforms that hit Eastern Europe. While in Hungary, we heard news of the student movement in China and were excited given the events taking place in Eastern Europe. We were shocked when shown what ended up happening in Tianamen Square since most of the protests taking place in Eastern Europe were peaceful. Years later after I'd been teaching for awhile, I'd show my students "Tank Man" every year. Last summer, I had an opportunity to go to China and we talked a bit about the Tiananmen Square protest both at the university and with our tour guide while in Beijing. The tour guide claimed that the government was embarrassed about the situation but he sided with the government saying the government had no choice. He mentioned that even if the movement was successful, it would have been worse for China because the movement had become unclear in terms of its goals. Reflecting on all of this, I find Deng's excerpts interesting as he mentions the student unrest in the U.S. during the 1960s and 70s and that we shouldn't criticize China for suppressing students. From the footage I've seen of these events, the severity of the Tiananmen Square protests seemed much worse. In hungary the student movement had developed over a period of years. They eventually formed a successful political party and gained power during elections. From my understanding, the student movement in China didn't have the same momentum, resources, or window of opportunity which might explain was it was suppressed. 🙁

[Anonymous]

Quick note on how China "owns the land" but citizens build houses on the land- my parents recently finished building a house in Vietnam under similar conditions...they technically do not "own" the land, they own the building it sits on. This has of course caused them some worry about the process, but today's lesson reminded me on how it indeed still goes on today...

[Anonymous]

It seems that there is growing popular opinion throughout the world that China may sharing the superpower stage with the USA. Yet I agree with Minxin Pei that China has a long way to go. I think Pei's most important point concerns education because it leads to innovation, patents, and generates the most amount of wealth. The Iphone may be built in China but it is designed in the states. Also the USA still has the best quality of engineering grads, which will spur more innovation and a democracy also opens society to more free thought and ingenuity.

I think another factor, if we are watching the superpower rat race, is amount of poverty in China and the fact that it is an aid recipient not an aid donor in many cases (Shambaugh, 2007). This poverty was definitely apparent in the movie Not One Lost and I was shocked when I found out that the poverty exists today (I thought the film was depicting 1950/60).

The US should not fear the rise of China. I hope that a multi-polar world will mitigate poverty and terrorism, but it will definitely further environment harm.

[Anonymous]

After reading the modern China readings and participating in our discussions in class I am struck by the conflicts China faces. it is an incredible time for this country right now. This country is a confluence of capitalism and communism. Communist government that censors people's public opinions, movements and religion. Capitalist economy that makes so much of the United States products and is consuming at tremendous rates. This country is at a crossroads. Like the 20th century was known as the "American Century" I believe the 21st century will be known as the "Chinese century". China's has a history of pushing herself far beyond the norm whether it is for good or bad purposes in the end. I certainly hope China can sustain the billion people it houses without hurting the rest of the world in the process. Capitalism and consumption seem to be the norm these days. What will it look like in 10 years?

[Anonymous]

I agree, the problems that face China are quite staggering. What really caught my attention was the readings and discussion on the HuKou System. In a world history class, I would have students concentrate on this system and see how it would affect people. To me, I think this would best work as a socratic seminar in which half the class is pro and the other con for various issues that I would bring about. Students would have to make quick analysis and debate their side, whether or not they actually believed in it or not. For example, restricting the movement and settlement of people to eithier rurual or urban locations for population control would be a good topic to begin with. Issues of Education, and diff. between rurlal and urban education systems? are they equal? Beijing Hokou and social status vs. countryside hukou. And moving up interms of social standing. These are just a few things I would play with.

Hu Kou System
Rural area means your locked to rural area for 3 generations
No access to schools
Goes by Mother, stays “geographically undesirable”
Exception: Soldier, learned a skill, demobilized into an urban job (e.g. driver)
Makes women less desirable, Countryside HuKou… will not marry a Beijing HuKou
Particular school you have access to.
Big cities are hard to move into… Being born to “Beijing HuKou” makes you very desirable!
Almost impossible to move up
Intended to control ; a way of managing

[Anonymous]

I loved the Doonesbury strips. This has also made me want to search more comic strips to include throughout my curriculum. The last reading for session 2 were especially interesting. They could all be easily excerpted for students to read. One of the most interesting to me was, "Made in China." Lots of my students have seen the movie, "A Day without a Mexican" so they can now relate to an actual attempt to go a year without buying goods made in China. This was great.

[clay dube]

Hi Angelica and others,

I'm glad you found the Bongiorni reading interesting. The book is a quick read and students might enjoy it.

Here's the NPR interview mentioned in class with the author:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12056295

Three summers ago, USC students and students from Beijing's Communication University of China paired up to make short documentaries about the "global city." The program continues and alternates between LA and Beijing.

In that first year, Tom Xia was one of the participating students and he looked at perceptions of Chinese in Arcadia, CA. See his The Elephant in the Pink Tutu here:
http://china.usc.edu/ShowArticle.aspx?articleID=1425

Tom and Alicia Dwyer, another USC grad, are now making a film that Angelica and her students may find interesting: Xmas without China. With luck, they'll finish it in time for the holidays. The economic downturn has slowed exports from China, but they remain significant.

[Anonymous]

The link by Clay regarding the NPR interview about boycotting goods made in China was also discussed in a lecture also. Our students and adults, for that matter, do not realize how dependent we have become for our daily needs and wants in the Asian markets.

Our global interactions with Asian markets historically and in modern times would be a good economic lesson topic to explore. Plus, geographic movement of goods and people could be integrated in my 5 Themes of Geography Unit. Thanks, Clay!

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