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AnonymousThough Manchurians did what they had to do to keep away Chinese, it got to a point where control was lost. Will this happen to immigrants in the United States? Will we reach a point where the government will give up and just let it be???? interesting to see. During today's lecture, I found intriguing the fact that these people went as far as imposing a particular hair style to identify those who did not "obey". Though a bit radical, apparently practical and effective.
AnonymousIt was a very interesting lecture. Professor Dube kept the lecture very engaging and I really enjoyed learning about the way the Manchurians tried to kept the purity of their identity. However, in trying to keep the Chinese away they experienced a bit of turmoil and eventually lost control. I truly believe that the movement of people from one place to another, regardless of borders or laws, is a natural inclination due to a basic survival instinct that humans possess.
AnonymousThis is a very interesting post and it reminds me of the Bible's story of Samson and Delilah. The hair plays such an important role in the live of men that it is a metaphor for strength, control and authority. It is also a symbol of independence and boldness.
AnonymousI'm just covering the early modern era in AP world history, and I am struck by how the constant fighting among the European powers caused them to focus on developing better weapons and war tactics. In the meantime, the more secure and unified empires of the rest of Eurasia, including China, only had to maintain domestic order and were thus not motivated to focus so much on warfare. For better or worse, this meant that Europe was ahead of the rest of the world when it came to fighting wars, and that worked out badly for the rest of the world. Hearing about the rule of the Manchus and their emphasis on cultural and political development makes clear that they did not have to fight wars as much as adapt culturally in order to govern effectively in China. China's isolation and relative security from conflict with other equally developed cultures is thus both a blessing and a weakness.
AnonymousOne of the statements from Dube that shocked me was that 35 Mill. people died of starvation, but the Chinese government doesn't want to acknoledge that this happened. I just find it disturbing that such number of deaths would be ignored by the goverment. I believe this is all out of pride it is like a holocaust. I am pretty sure this happens in many countries but we never hear about it because the information that gets to the outside world is completely sensored by the Government.
AnonymousThe following are my notes from the session:
Clayton Dube
Two calls from reporters
CIA report about a multipolar world with a rising middle class and China with a powerful economy and rising middle class. This means it is a good market for U.S. products. iPhones are 6th because they are not supported by the main cell network. However GM cars are selling well.
Other report: China has serious problems that may keep it from moving forward because its growth on the current model cannot be maintained.
China is preparing to land on the moon, building large dams, bringing water to the north. 200 million people subsist on $1.25/ day. Paradoxes and contradictions. We live in U.S. we should be used to paradoxes and contradictions.
What does Chinese poverty look like? Beggers, homeless, encampments. Hidden poverty in the countryside in the hills.
For the most part the Chinese government does little for the rural poor.
The household registration system in 1959 created a caste system transmitted through the mother. This restricted rural people from moving to the city because they wanted to avoid the phenomena of a huge number of people in cities with no urban planning or facilities or services. The current system continues to exist but it freezes kids out of schools in the cities. In the old days the urban people got food coupons so the rural people could not get food in cities. Today, anyone with money can get food.
Does China have Think Tanks like RAND? -- There are no private think tanks but many government think tanks. NGO think tank - Center for China and Globalization sponsored by scholars who went to the U.S. and returned to China. It is not possible to be completely independent in China. If you are not in line with the laws of the government you will be extinguished.
Do people like the rural lifestyle? -- Older people like the familiar, but the younger enjoy the bright lights and big city. See the Last Train Home.
Chinese growth in power threatens other Asian countries like Vietnam and the Philipines. Phillipines support the idea of a militarized Japan.
Reminder to post.
Next session is January 8. Meet your obligation for the forum.
Web resource
Film
May review more than one web site or more than one film.
One for each session - go back and make sure you posted.
The most expensive Chinese stamp (8 exist in the world) produced during the Cultural Revolution has a map of China without Taiwan on it. They destroyed the stamps. The stamp went of 3 million dollars. The stamp market became the model for the Chinese stock market.
********
Essential Themes
open v. closed: extent an nature of relations with Chinese.
united v. disunited
Prof. Yang - period of disunion are important because it brings new ideas. The philosophical debate was during a period of disunion. What are the characteristics of a dynasty that is more open to non-Chinese.
The Chinese language 70 years ago described people living on the frontier using the animal radical attached to the name to show they are NOT us. Only 70 years ago that radical was removed. To the Chinese mind it was not offensive but rather they were stating a fact that these people were less like the civilized Chinese. They are civilized and the rest are not. There was a hierarchy based upon how like the Chinese different peoples were.
Growth v. Development - economic change. Difference between economic growth and economic development. For much of Chinese history, China experienced growth without development.
Presenting the Past - answering today's questions. Discover new materials so we can know more about it but questions change because we change. A century ago we did not ask as much about women or kids [or environment]. Remembering contingency or serendipity. Marxists see all history as economic history as class struggle but most are not Marxist historians and the element of chance looms large. If you study military history like WWII there are strange occurrences that determine the outcomes - carrier group not in Pearl Harbor and not detected early at Midway so Japanese lose out.
How chance plays a role.
All chance stories are of many types. If individual narratives include serendipity than why not imagine it being a factor elsewhere in the history of human experience. The role of serendipity in scientific endeavors.
The Chinese government has an official way of presenting the past in terms of Marxist doctrine - primitive communalism, slave society, feudalism, colonialism. There is an idea that they leapt over the capitalist period into socialism. The big stories that are coming out are not officially recognized like the famines of the 1955-1959 which discredits the party and Chairman Mao.
Ch'ing Dynasty/ Qing Dynasty - expanded dramatically - did not include Korea as shown in map - it did include Taiwan however.
The first emperor was Shunzhi
Traditional Chinese dating was by the year of the ruler. For the vast majority of Chinese people over history is they just said it happened before - in the past - without being specific. The Japanese the dynastic dating system - this year is the 23rd year of the Heije. With Japan it is at least one emperor over another.
In Taiwan they have no emperors but they say this is the 101st year of the republic of China. These different system show how you process information.
Manchus have come in from Manchuria in the area north of Korea which is described today as three provinces. These people were nomads from outside of China. They created a writing system and a buerocratic system based upon the Chinese. They move to attack China as China is facing a drought which led to suffering and a postal official organizes the people.
One Chinese general Wu San Wei lets the Manchus in - he is like a Benedict Arnold. The Manchus supplant the Ming. Manchurians have armies including the Mongols who were integrated into the Manchurian system. In most of China they do not have trouble. In one part they do have trouble.
Shunzhi emperor - says that every Chinese male must have a shaved forehead and wear a braid. This has become a stereotype of a Chinese hairstyle. They were dictated to wear this hair style so the Manchu could ID the Chinese immediately and ID the troublemakers who were not submitting to Manchu rule. In 1911, cutting your braid was a revolutionary act. The Chinese migrants coming to the U.S. did not cut their braids because during the Qing wherever you are in the world you were subject to the emperor. The people who do not have to do this are Monks and the Bald do not have to wear this hair style.
Centuries before it was unfilial to cut your hair off because your parents gave it to you however Buddhist monks shaved their heads.
Kangxi emperor 1654-1722 - Emperor of China by Jonathan Spence. This is a great book. Kangxi like Shunzhi assumes throne at 8 years old. Kangxi has a series of regents. When he is 15 he overthrows the regents and rules on his own. He rules and empire of over 100 million people. The official history used to say these were feudal rulers but now there are these long 45 part series about these ruler. Time travel stories right now are very popular - about traveling back in time. Time travel soap operas where a woman visits a museum and they are transmitted back. The most popular destination is the Manchu dynasty. All of the actors speak standard Mandarin - not Manchurian so it is easy for audience sot forget who runs the show.
Qing starts 1644 - 1911 267 years.
The Manchus hold onto the worlds largest empire for 267 years but most history books speak of Qing failure or incompetence. Compare Mongol Yuan to the Qing. Yuan lasts 75 years but Qing lasts much longer due to accomodation and flexibility.
Ethnic flexibility - could have said here is the hierarchy like the Mongols did but did not. Instead they accepted the fact that there were more Chinese than Manchus and left the door open for Chinese. They did try to keep Manchuria pure. No one but Manchurians in Manchuria. This worked for about 100 years. Chinese moved into Manchuria buying land or working for others, so that by 1800 there are court cases where the judge states "You are Chinese, you are not supposed to be here." and then to the other "You are Chinese too!" The judge establishes that both are not legally there goes onto decide the merits of the case.
Cultural realm - did not deny validity of Chinese thought or culture. Mongols abolished examination system. Qing did the opposite. They kept the system and encouraged the study of ancient Chinese teachings. They patronized the arts. They collected all of the books and censored things. They preserved some books as the Four Treasures - the targeted texts had to do with local religion, miracles and magic. They did not target pornography. Chinese novel with graphic sex showing all the bad things. When this story is translated into English the naughty bits are translated into Latin not English.
The Four Treasures.
patronize Confucian and Buddhist things.
Political dual rule. Manchu minister and Chinese minister who would have to talk and decide what to do next. Members of Chinese elite end up incorporated into the system.
Don't challenge existing order- continue to pay taxes but now it comes to us. The one place this did not happen was near Shanghai where Ming loyalists held out. The Ming loyalists were exterminated. Famous stories about these Ming loyalists.
Success of the Qing rather than the fall of the Qing which usually is emphasized.
Compare Mongol ruling system and Manchu ruling system.
The price? Sinficiation - loss of distinctiveness of the Manchurians - they became proficient in Chinese.
The Qing had a limited capacity for resource mobilization compared to European nations.
***
Lesson plans
What drives innovation?
How do you adapt to no wood - Chinese lived in caves in some places.
Qing Expansion brought Taiwan under imperial control. Taiwan had been seized by the Dutch. In Southern China people who are loyal to Ming take Taiwan from the Dutch. Because they defeated Europeans they are seen as heroic patriots.
Pushed Russians north of Amur River
Fended off challenges from the Northwest. The Manchus built a multi-ethnic empire.
Mongolia, Xinjian, and Tibet now under Imperial control. Chines idea is that Tibet.
The Manchu empire is what the current government seeks to replicate. Mongolia is an indendant country. In Taiwan Mongolia is considered still part of the ROC.
Pictures of Tibetans. Tibetan Buddhism is a distinct form of Buddhism. Mongolian and Tibetan Buddhism are the same.
Life and Death are Wearing Me Out by Moi Yen about reincarnation. He received Nobel Prize in Literature. He was condemned by some because he has not spoken out against censorship and for human rights for Liao Xiao Ba who is in jail. Read Moi Yen's speech. He tells his story. He distinguishes literature from journalism and history. He gives examples of kids and talks about tolerance and openness. He is a member of the Chinese Communist Party and very much part of the system yet he is very critical of the system in particular one child system. His novel Frog deals with this.
The Dalai Lama is a Chinese citizen and won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989. Tibetan Buddhism emphasizes not just the notion of reincarnation but believes that they can ID who is reincarnated. Who you were. The Dalai Lama is the reincarnation of his predecesor and on back. They have a process to ID the person. [like cartoon Avatar, the Last Airbender] Not all Buddhists believe in this. The Dalai Lama does not represent the majority of Buddhists. The first Dalai Lamas were Mongolian appointed by the Mongol rulers. When other high ranking Lama have passed away there have been competing candidates from Beijing and not. The current Dalai Lama has said that he won't be reincarnated in China. The Chinese policy is to wait for him to die.
Population of Tibet is about 6 million. Some of these Tibetans have been killing themselves by lighting themselves on fire.
1951 Chinese communists take control of Tibet and Dalai Lama is a kid. In 1959 many Tibetans feel their autonomy was encroached upon and an rebellion breaks out. It is crushed and the Dalai Lama flees. 1951-1959 there were CIA agents who worked with the Dalai Lama. The CIA may have stopped in the 1980s.
CIA funds Falungong.
1741 China has 141 million people.
Tanka paintings.
Bei Hai park. Degoba a Tibetan Buddhist version of a pagoda. This is in Beijing and an example of evidence of connection with Tibet.
Picture in Xingxiang showing Uighur Yurt. Chinese citizens in Kashgar. [On the Road Marco Polo] Most people in Kashgar are Muslims. There is much ethnic tension. Women wear different kinds of veils or wear a white hat. Many Chinese Muslims pass through Kashgar on the way to Mecca. Cross the border into Pakistan - sell you stuff and go to Mecca. Much of Kashgar has been torn down and Chinese developers are coming in. Because they are close to Pakistan, many people use American ammunition boxes to store things.
During this time the Pakistani were getting money to arm the Mujahadeen to fight the Russians.
Kashgar had two former consulates - British and Russian.
Qing Art - jade carving example.
Beijing Opera. Sampling in Farewell My Concubine. -- Acrobatics.
One secret to peasant household durability. Population rises. Fungja - encourages early and universal marriage. This means many years of marriage and many children. Fungja begins about 2300 years ago. Everyone gets married by around 17 or 18. All sons get equal land. This ends up with fragmentation of estates. China maximized the productivity of the land pretty early. So you move into new lands - hillsides, reclaim. Put labor into the land you have. Put more labor into it and use more efficient crops. At some point you max that out too. [Clifford Geertz Agricultural Involution] Then what? --
-- Handicraft production. Spin cotton into thread. Cotton originally comes from India. People in China stop spinning by hand in the early 20th century. Mechanized spinning is more efficient by 8700. The Japanese bring the first textile factory into China.
Weave into cloth. Early mechanized looms were only 3 to 5 times more efficient than the hand held version.
Thus the hand looms compete until the 1950 and 1960s.
In the household the opportunity costs of spinning compared to other things makes spinning a good option. The opportunity cost is nothing because you aren't doing anything else. The reason they stop is that you got a work point for going into the fields. You got a share based upon how many work points you had.
Why didn't the Chinese make factories? The workers are already working for free.
Hire out or go into commerce.
AnonymousThe Qing dynasty was the last emperial dynasties of china and what a way to put an end to it. During this dynasty, China almost tripled its territory and its population grew approximately from 150 to 450 million people. China adopted one language and standardized money. During this time, one of the world's most magnificent art creating was created, the Terra Cotta Warriors. When I visited China, I didn't know anything about the Terra Cotta Warriors, I must say this was even more impressive than the Great Wall, in my opinion. This session help me understand the history behind them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iKdLRJWtPg
AnonymousIrony. In 1876, San Francisco in an effort to make the Chinese immigrants less Chinese passed an ordinance that made wearing a queue illegal and subject to fine. In reality, they were making the Chinese more Chinese and less Manchu. Since the beginning of the Qing Dynasty in 1644, Han men in China had been required to wear the queue as a sign of submission to the ruling Manchu people. The penalty for refusal was death. By the time the Pigtail Ordinance was passed in San Francisco, the queue was a symbol of national identity for the Chinese. The power of the Pigtail Ordinance came from the fear of losing this vital symbol; the theory was that Chinese immigrants would be less likely to ignore the Sanitary Ordinance if such a heavy penalty was the result. In 1879, the Supreme Court struck down the law. Every once in a while we get a chance to get sidetracked by these interesting moments in history. Of course, fashion can be historical or even revolutionary. Just ask the French with their bonne rouge or the Counter-Culture movement and their long hair or even the Chinese Communists and their cool Mao uniforms.
AnonymousOne of the topics that really struck me was that of poverty. Working in a high poverty area, I see homeless people every day as I drive to school. China has its share of poor and homeless and millions survive on less than $2 a day. Just as the U.S., it is a visible travesty in a country that spends billions on such areas as the military for people to be out in the streets with little or no food. What really disturbed me was the fact that China tried to cover up their own homeless problem during the Olympics by temporarily moving them away from the high interest areas. Instead of trying to sweep the problem under the rug to promote tourism, more needs to be done for the poor. I was also thinking about the movie "Last Train Home" as many people are separated from their families in order to provide for them. It's truly ironic that they must physically abandon their families in order to financially support them.
AnonymousThe most interesting part of the lecuture for me was about the emperor Shunzhi. I have watched Asian films before where the characters have shaved foreheads with a long braid. I always thought it was their hair style or tradition. It was interesting to know that these hairstyle was used to identify Chinese rebels that were not submitting to Manchu rule. I can't believe that the emperor had such power that even Chinese that traveled to the US would still not cut their braid!
AnonymousThe point about ethnic diversity in China is very well taken. From a distance it's easy to see another country's population as homogeneous. I'm sure most of the world sees Americans as just one big group of white people when of course there's great diversity among white (European) people and with people of other races. We do the same for China and Russia, assuming they're just all Chinese or Russian when in fact there's a lot of diversity both recent and historical that comprises those societies. In fact as you go back in history even what seem to be very homogeneous societies turn out to be comprised of smaller diverse groups--England or France for example. From within a society these differences generally loom larger than from outside, but if we want to understand a country we should be aware that there's diversity everywhere.
Rob_Hugo@PortNWDear Colleagues,
Please write your reflections below.
Best,
Yingjia
edited by Ying Jia on 12/11/2012
AnonymousChina is definitely not the only country that downplays or ignores shameful episodes in the past. Our own country is very reluctant to talk about two such episodes: 1. Genocide against the indigenous people of North America, and 2. Capture and oppression of millions of Africans as chattel slaves. We don't actually deny that these things happened, but until recently they were rarely acknowledged. Both are events of such magnitude that it shocks the imagination to think of them. Over 90% of Native Americans were killed by European diseases, and the rest were confined to small land areas with few resources. Africans (mostly males) were brought in big enough numbers to permanently alter the social structure of Africa. Then even after the end of slavery they were kept in near bondage by social and economic strictures. There is a widespread attitude that these are "ancient history" and not worth discussing any more.