thoughts about session 13 on 8/2 w/Dr. Dube

[Anonymous]

I didn't realize that the Chinese were so afraid of a USSR attack. I knew they had a falling out, but that is interesting that it affected the US - China relations as much as it did. What are the current relations between China and Russia?

[Anonymous]

How could people just mindlessly go along with giving up their land, forming communes, and getting paid once a year? I guess it wasn't mindless. I guess because of their plight, they were really believed things would get better. But, not to collectively blame Mao for all of the problems and to continue to revere him is something I have a hard time wrapping my mind around.

[Anonymous]

The point made during yesterday's lecture was that all of the countries that were sites of American Occupation are now thriving. In the cases of Japan and South Korea-- they have become some of the largest economies in the world. The struggle to keep power and appear 100% correct is proplematic in governments and politicians throughout history. It might be good to have students make these connections in class. The Cult of Mao .. just astounds me. How can someone in charge want to be so out of touch so as to let 25 million people in your own country die. I am sure that ws not his objective -- but really?? One would hope if the unwelcomed news had something to do with the well being of your people, you would investigate the allegations. I am hoping that all governmets are more open to information... but I don't know that this is a reality either.

[Anonymous]

We don't tend to think of Time as propaganda... nor do we always see the bias in our own media... But I think it important to teach these evaluative and critical thinking skills to our students.

[Anonymous]

I agree with tbastian. It seems so strange all these people can/would sacrifice so much for the country but I guess its because there was never any room for individualism and questioning the government. Just look ast North Korea. ( Mao = Kim)

[Anonymous]

The USC China Institute has many resources on its site. I haven't looked at all of the materials due the quantity, but I am sure that there are some interesting and useful things there.

I agree with Sabro, it is important to teach students to critically think. The Time covers and many pictures can be analyzed to to unearth a deeper meaning and possible agenda. Great pics from this session.

[clay dube]

Antonio asks a good question (should have raised it in class, since like many of the comments from this group, it was written during class). Does anyone have an answer as to why China doesn't become rich. After all, it had land reform.

The answer, of course, is that two other reforms were quickly undertaken that took away the land that had been distributed to peasant households. First, the cooperatives, and then the communes. So land was redistributed and a couple years later taken back. In other parts of East Asia land reform helped create a decent pool of rural consumers. In all of East Asia, it was an important signal that there was a new political order.

[clay dube]

Hi Folks,
The human rights documents are in this collection:
http://china.usc.edu/Resources21.aspx

[clay dube]

Mao had to share power with Liu Shaoqi after 1959 and he was far from happy about that. Peng's letter is attached (two pictures). The translation is in DeBary, Sources of Chinese Tradition. The third attachment shows how uneasy the situation was for Liu. In 1962, he gave a speech at a meeting of top leaders in which he talked about Peng. It was an awkward moment - he says that Peng was factually correct and that it was okay for him to write such a letter, since he was a politburo member. But he condemns Peng for being part of a clique that was "anti-party." This speech isn't in Liu's official collected works, because now Peng is celebrated as a hero. Liu was probably sympathetic to Peng, but didn't defend him in 1962. And it didn't matter that he condemned Peng then. Mao was still unhappy and Liu would be taken down in 1966.

The current official line on Peng can be seen here: http://english.people.com.cn/data/people/pengdehuai.shtml .

The 4th attachment is of a photo of Liu's wife, Wang Guangmei being paraded around with a necklace of ping pong balls.

Attachments:

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[clay dube]

I was delighted to see Antonio's post about Mexicali. Some Americans don't realize that Chinese and Japanese migrated to the Americas and not just the US. You'll find Chinese in Cuba and Brazil and many other places. Some 4,000 people of Japanese ancestry were brought from Peru during World War II and interned in the US. A former Japanese Peruvian even became president of that country (it didn't end well, but....). Now some Japanese Brazilians are migrating to Japan (not back to Japan, they were born and grew up in Brazil, most don't even speak Japanese). There are many good books by Lynn Pan and others on these diaspora.

Here's a great interactive map from the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704682604575369390660095122.html#articleTabs%3Dinteractive

[clay dube]

People knew that times were tough, but most figured it was a local problem and not a national catastrophe. I asked Sid Rittenberg what he knew about it (http://china.usc.edu/ShowArticle.aspx?articleID=2833 or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaaNwa5WA-4 ). It's 27.5 minutes into the discussion.

Here's the most recent study (but not the only one): http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/6a148d26-7432-11df-87f5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz22XM2MT3w

[Anonymous]

The massive famine caused by Mao's Great Leap Forward was beyond severe. I did not previously know that economic policy was taken away from Mao around 1960 or so and the story of the General who bravely spoke up, in addition to the person who became party leader. So the Cultural Revolution was primarily about getting back at some fellow comm party members. Such a tragic turn of events affecting millions of people!

[Anonymous]

I was talking to one of the teachers about our large Chinese population in Calexico. When I went to school in 1979 - 1983, several of my classmates were Chinese. Their families had several businesses in Mexicali and some in Calexico. Some of my classmates would take me to their place of business after school both in Calexico and Mexicali. It was safe to cross the border back then without any difficulty. It was my friend's duty to assist their parents in running the business everyday. It was normal for all their family members and friends to speak Spanish quite as well as my family did. Although, when they spoke among themselves, they used Chinese. One Calexico teacher informed me they still have a large population of Chinese students. The only difference is now they are paying for a US education. Calexico high school is very over populated. We have several students who give their relatives' addresses in Calexico to attend school in the US, but they still reside in Mexicali.

[Anonymous]

I found it very interesting to learn about Henry Luce as a powerful supporter and almost propagandist of Chiang Kai-shek through Time Magazine. I searched online to find more sources on him, and found this review of a book http://www.economist.com/node/15211169. The actual book is here http://www.amazon.com/The-Publisher-American-Century-Vintage/dp/0679741542/ref=tmm_pap_title_0. He was an influential part of history during the reign of Mao and after the 1940s.

I also find it interesting Luce was born and raised (early life) in China to parents of missionaries. From just a broad perspective it kind of makes sense how he could be so zealous towards a particular issue/regime/idea. Here is an article from the global china center about Christianity in the first half of the twentieth century: http://www.globalchinacenter.org/analysis/christianity-in-china/christianity-in-china-19001950-the-history-that-shaped-the-present.php.

[Anonymous]

I think with any country that contains incredible resources and yet has a high poverty rate. I often ask students to discuss what power is to them and why certain people crave power at the expense of others.

[Author]

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