Thoughts about session 3

[Anonymous]

It might be interesting to hear a little about the reaction of the Chinese to the disaster in Japan. I had heard/read something about the Chinese taking a new look or approach with their feelings about the Japanese, primarily from the way in which the Japanese people have reacted to the crisis. The Japanese seem to be setting an example to the world on how to handle a disaster by showing much patience, civility, and understanding. One report I heard talked about the lack of price gouging after the disaster, which seems to happen everywhere else when things go wrong and people can make a quick profit.

[Anonymous]

This session is one of the many reasons why I wanted to be part of this seminar. I have always had several questions about the history and contributions of the Chinese dynasties. I was glad to learn about the Qing and Ming Dynasties specifically about how they contributed to China's culture and history. I will definitely bring the information on the Ming dynasty in regards to the Great wall and Forbidden City/ Imperial Palace into my classroom, to give my student's an idea of how the country was ruled and their fear of invasion from the north by the Mongols. I was most interested with our discussion on the Qing dynasty. I was unaware of the Manchu influences, for example their hair style, and how they governed lightly. I was surprised to learn that they chose to accommodate the Chinese people rather than force change onto them.

Side note: I wish we had more time to discuss the effects of Western trade of Opium with China, in addition to foot binding.

[Anonymous]

The part of the seminar that focused on China's dominance of the sea was fascinating. China's dominance of the high seas and its technological advances(ie, compass/cannons) reflected China's influence and dominance in the world. I have taught and studied from World History curriculum/texts which focused on the influence and dominance from the West(Greece/Rome/Europe/US), and so I appreciate hearing a different historical perspective which coveres China's historical influence and dominance.
On the other side of China's past historical domination, the Treaty of Nanking is a sad reality of the one sided treaties which brought the opium trade to China and the era of Shame and Humiliation upon the Chinese people. I think that the rage of the Chinese people can be seen/felt in that scene in the movie "Empire of the Sun" where the Chinese servant slaps the person she was a servant to, a British boy portrayed in the film by a young Christian Bale.

[Anonymous]

The fact that China has so many national memorial days of shame was very interesting to me. I also found it interesting learning about Matteo Ricci and the Jesuits that first came to China and their experiences. They had to acclimate to the culture before the Chinese would have anything to do with them and in the Jesuits efforts to convert the Chinese they did not tell them that Ancestor Worship was a big NO, NO. I felt bad that the Holy Roman Church got wind of all this and disciplined them. I found session three to be very enlightening and was glad we addressed the current events of Japan and the terrble trajedies of the earthquake, tsunami and Nuclear threat. I also found it notable that we all were so impressed by the stoicism of the Japanese in the face of these disasters.

[Anonymous]

I hadn't heard of the "century of shame" and will find that an interesting lens through which to view that century.

I have read a few novels about post 1950's China, notably by Ha Jin (Waiting stands out) where the weight of Party dictums is palpably oppressive. I have also enjoyed Dai Sijie's Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress for a fictional look at how re-education played out for two young men. Adeline Yen Mah's Chinese Cinderella is an account of a neglected step child who does quite well, becoming a physician in Sounthern California, but she is still sad about old family dynamics. After the shame come draconian efforts to erase it, I guess.

On the question of styles through the ages, Mr. Dube's comment that men had to show their allegiance to the new (Manchu) regime with their haircut, I asked what women had to do. The response was nothing in particular, which made me also ask, so what brought on the footbinding? That was apparently most common in the north among wealthy familes and was not a Manchu custom. He said story has it that a particular beauty of the court had very small feet that entranced the Emperor, so that became a standard of beauty. Wikipedia says in part, "However, there is little strong textual evidence for the custom prior to the court of the Southern Tang dynasty in Nanjing, which celebrated the fame of its dancing girls, renowned for their tiny feet and beautiful bow shoes. " It was a custom for a millenium! hard to believe.

I loved the book on Cheng He, When China Ruled the Seas: The Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne, 1405-1433 by Louise Levathes, especially since I don't know enough to be critical of it. It's certainly food for some thought. So many things to mull over after these sessions, and Mr. Dube can talk engagingly for hours at a time!

The Korean readings so far offer a contrast, more of a focus on homogeneity than a confluence of differences.
edited by mmukai on 3/25/2011

[clay dube]

Hi Folks - I'm sorry that discussion of the tsunami, etc. took away from our time on late imperial China. We'll discuss China 1800 to today in May when I get to rejoin the group. In the meantime, please use the forum to talk about the readings for these sessions and some of the ideas you have about how to teach kids about these important issues.

[Anonymous]

I noticed an article in this morning's LA Times about haiku being written in response to the earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear meltdown in Japan. Haiku is still published as part of the arts coverage in Japan's newspapers. It reminded me of the similar literate response by Chinese detainees on Angel Island in San Francixco Bay, awaiting word on whether they would be allowed to emigrate or have to return to China. Angel Island was an immigration port of entry in response to the Exlusion Act of 1882. A tradition of a literate response to Nature and events is impressive as well as appealing; I'm afraid an American response would start with grafitti and anger at events, before turning to something more reflective. Is this an effect of the Confucian respect for learning, Buddhist predilection for instrospection, or another tradition of contextual response to experiences? [A theory I favor: http://books.google.com/books?id=vw20LEaJe10C&lpg=PA167&ots=Li7Ltr7AGv&dq=Asians%20see%20more%20of%20detail%2C%20Europeans%20focus%20on%20figure&pg=PA167#v=onepage&q&f=false]

I'm afraid this is only tangentially related to Session 3's foucs on history, my apologies.
edited by mmukai on 3/26/2011

[Anonymous]

In this lecture, I have learned two important lessons that I could share with my students: The Great Wall of China and the foot binding. Although foot binding is too sensitive to discuss with my elementary school students at this point, I have revisited a lesson with my students and corrected myself about the Great Wall of China. A couple months ago, I told them it was the only human-made structure that you could observe from space. I didn’t know that statement was removed from Chinese textbooks since 2003. Surprisingly, most of my Chinese students have never been to the Great Wall. Therefore, I can’t blame Marco Polo. Also, I might have misconception about foot binding; I was told that it was not only women’s agonizing practice of beautification, but also men’s attempt to keep their wives home due to the imbalance of gender ratio during the Song Dynasty. Really incredible!

[Anonymous]

I had the same thoughts as Ron. I do not recall hearing about much Japanese aid to China last year or a few years back when China had a big earthquake, nor do I hear or read about Chinese aid to Japan. My students are curious if the Japanese would help us in time of disaster, and I assure them that they do, but it just does not seem to make the news. I also pointed out the difference in the public's reaction to a natural disaster here and in Japan and one student said maybe everyone in Japan has money, which I took to mean a small gap in the distibution of wealth. Since I have no idea about this, I told the class I would ask my Tuesday night class. So, does anyone have any information on the distribution of wealth in Japan?

[Anonymous]

I was very glad that we had the opportunity to discuss what happened in Japan during our last session. It's nice to have a place to conveniently go to ask questions and discuss current issues. There's been some discussion about China's response to the Japanese disaster(s) and it got me thinking about the current relations between countries in the region. Do surrounding countries such as China and the Koreas still harbor resentment and animosity toward Japan for past atrocities? It amazes me how the Japanese were able to move past what the Americans did to them in World War II, but were the Chinese able to do the same? I don't know how much assistance, if any, they have offered Japan.

[Anonymous]

The national days of shame was new to me, so I will be reading up on that. The rest of the lecture was review since I've studied and teach that material for the past six years.

I'm glad we spent some time talking about Japan. As others have mentioned the relationship between China and Japan during disasters is quite interesting. I don't recall Japan being overly supportive of China during the earthquake a few years ago, and I don't see much about the Chinese helping the Japanese out now. In fact, there were articles about China moving Chinese citizens out of Japan about a week ago. This is all that surprising considering their less than amicable relationship in the past. When I talked to people in Kunming a couple of years ago, many expressed dislike for Japan, with some listing Japan in their top three nations that they dislike most. I'm curious as to how the people in East Asia view each other, whether this animosity that the Chinese feel toward Japan is common as a result of the early to mid-20th century interactions with Japan or something else.

[Anonymous]

The dancer that Prof. Dube mentioned was from the Tang dynasty if I remember correctly. Because she was a favorite other women who wanted similar attention started emulating her. This eventually evolved into footbinding. My paternal grandmother had bound feet as a child before her family lost their wealth and eventual migration to Cambodia. Her husband decided to make a new life in Cambodia, and when they arrived, she stopped binding her feet. Eventually her feet returned to near normal, unbound feet. NPR has a good series of articles on footbinding:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=8966942

[Anonymous]

It was very interesting to learn all about the Ming dynasty and the end of the lecture really got me thinking about some of the questions raised - Did Marco Polo really go to China since there was no mention of the Great Wall? What would have happened if the emperor didn't listen to the bureaucrats about the "wastefulness" of shipbuilding? To think - the Chinese had a ship 3 times as big as Columbus' biggest ship at the end of the 5th century! What IF China kept expanding? With all their technological advancements (i.e. invention of the compass and gunpowder) and mathematical skills, they undoubtedly would have been one of the powerful imperialist nations.

I also liked learning about the Qing Dynasty/Manchu Dynasty and how they achieved such longevity through accommodation. I wonder if their descendants feel that the price of this accommodation (Sinification/loss of distinctiveness and the limited capacity for resource mobilization when challenged by the West) was one worth paying. In the end, they certain achieved enough to justify their actions.
edited by cbacon on 3/29/2011

[Anonymous]

Although I have taught about Ancient China for 5 years, this session helped me to not only review the content, but it also served as a refresher. Many times we ten to fall into a routine becuase we are comfortable with the content. However, this session reminded me of information and facts that I can incorporate into my lessons to make them more interesting and tangible to my students. I was angered and frustrated with the reading on footbinding, but I could not put it down! I remember hearing about it as a student in High School, however, I didn't really know the reasons why, or even that there was an "anti-footbinding" group. This allowed me to connect to history because I was reminded that social movements have always been taking place everywhere in the world! It also allowed me to catch a small glimpse of what was important to the Chinese upper class society during that time. Unfornately, not much has changed in our society. The "value" of women still heavily lies in their appearance

[clay dube]

The Chinese practice of footbinding is one of those things that capture people's attention. This can lead to a distorted picture of the social position of women. Let's discuss it in the Asia in My Classroom forum. I will say more about it when I'm back with the group in May. Here I want to provide some additional resources:

Footbinding is one of the topics that every teacher needs to discuss when looking at the varying experiences of Chinese women. It emerged about a thousand years ago during the Song dynasty (宋朝，960-1279) and survived into the last century.

Not all women had their feet bound. Many non-Han ethnic groups such as the Hakka and Manchus did not bind their women's feet and it was much less common among ordinary people in the South than it was in the North, probably because women in the South usually joined in agricultural labor.

How are we to understand this custom and role men and women played in perpetuating it? How should we raise the topic with children? Is it enough to note that our own culture imposes standards of beauty that cause some to endure suffering, surgery, or psychological damage?

Below are some web resources on footbinding that you may find interesting.

California resident Beverly Jackson is a longtime collector of the shoes worn by Chinese women with bound feet. She traveled to China and interviewed women who had their feet bound and produced a lavishly illustrated volume Splendid Slippers. Her website offers short excerpts from the book, reviews of it, and -- of course -- a link to buy the volume. Combined with works by Howard Levy and Dorothy Ko, this is a good resource to draw upon in introducing the practice to students.

http://www.silcom.com/~bevjack/

Levy, Howard S. Chinese Footbinding: The History of a Curious Erotic Custom, Foreword by Arthur Waley. Introd. by Wolfram Eberhard. New York, W. Rawls, 1966.

Ko, Dorothy. Every Step a Lotus : Shoes for Bound Feet. Berkeley : University of California Press, 2001. Click here to see the UC Press webpage on the book. You can download and read chapter 2. It includes terrific images. Prof. Ko has also written "The Body as Attire: The Shifting Meanings of Footbinding in Seventeenth-Century China," The Journal of Women's History 8.4.
http://iupjournals.org/jwh/jwh8-4.html

Feng Jicai, one of China's most popular writers, authored an interesting novel on the custom and its place in family and social life. Three Inch Golden Lotus. It was translated by David Wakefield and published by the University of Hawaii press. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0824816064/103-0017646-1395814?v=glance

Yue-qing Yang's recent film Footbinding: The Search for the Three-Inch Golden Lotus is available and includes interviews with Chinese about the custom. In the film, Dorothy Ko argues that footbinding is routinely misunderstood. http://www.movingimages.bc.ca/catalogue/Cultdiverse/footbinding.html

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