thoughts about session 8 (China w/Dr. Clayton)

[Anonymous]

I was fascinated by Professor Dube’s lecture because he led us to intuitive thinking and to perceive information from a different angle as usual. I especially liked the “Three Main Rules of Discipline and the Eight Points for Attention” from Mao Zedong. Although those rules were for the Chinese People’s Liberation Army, I can discuss about the eight points with students because the rules will certainly enforce them how to be respectful to others and their properties.

[Anonymous]

I think another reason for the Chinese people's devotion to Mao was due to his leadership during WW II. After fighting to rid the country of the Japanese and then fighting the Nationalists (aided by the US), did the Chinese view the Nationalists as just another puppet government without the best interests of the people at heart? It is still mind boggling to me how so many people can be convinced to follow someone who has taken complete power. Maybe the devil you know is really better than the devil you don't!

[Anonymous]

The use of propaganda is a big issue in my world history class, particularly when we discuss the rise of totalitarian governments after world war I. I have students look at different government posters and discuss the goals of the posters, We also incorporate American war posters from WWI and WWII. My students also look at the article on Stanley Milgrim's obedience experiments.

It's always fascinating to see and hear my students say they would never help someone like Hitler kill an innocent person. They also proclaim that they are independent minded individual and won't do things they don't like. At this point I usually ask for a volunteer and I give them instructions to do something silly and invariably the student follows. The purpose of the day is to show our willingness to follow an authority figure even when we don't want to.

[Anonymous]

I found this night's lecture particularly interesting, helping me to plug some gaping holes in my knowledge of 20th century Chinese history. The reading and discussion on the confrontation between the peasants and the landlord, skillfully orchestrated by party cadres, were fascinating and really gave a sense of the social dynamics at work in land redistribution. The emphasis on the larger group and creating (and enforcing) consensus struck me as very culturally Chinese.

[Anonymous]

The reading on the hokou system was intriguing and helped to explain the ongoing gap between rural and urban areas in China. Until reading this, I hadn't realized how restricted Chinese people's movement were within their own country, or linked what I knew about that restriction to the need to keep agriculture workers on the farms during the Great Leap Forward. It's interesting to see how the agricultural or non-agricultural status assigned back in the 1950s has continued to be followed to this day, gradually evolving into a class system of its own. How ironic that the peasants, who were supposed to be the ones benefitting from the Communist Revolution, became an underclass again with the institution of the hukou system and its limitations on mobility. This is the kind of irony I'm sure my students would notice and enjoy pointing out, as criticizing those in power is always satisfying!

[Anonymous]

Some other ideas I found useful/thought-provoking from this evening's class were the idea of the "century of humiliation" -- China's proud past being threatened by a century of invasion, mistreatment at the hands of imperial powers, and civil war. The Communist victory in 1949 brought this to an end; as Prof. Dube quoted Mao, the Chinese people had stood up. As a few other people have commented, this understanding of history goes a long way toward explaining the willingness of the Chinese people to put up with the failures and injuries suffered under the CCP.

As someone else commented, it was also useful to hear about the Chinese perspective on the Korean War, as well as the high price the Chinese paid in that war (one which tends to be forgotten in US history, in my experience). I liked the phrase Prof. Dube quoted about the Chinese view of China: you need the lips to protect the teeth, and Korea is the lips, while China is the teeth. Pithy sayings like this from other cultures always sound so much more interesting than idiomatic English! And they help students remember the larger point, too.

[Anonymous]

In this session, Prof. Clay shared with us his personal experience when he was in China in the early 80’s. I really want to that Prof. Clay is one of the people who first eat crab. At that time, China was just starting to adopt “Open Door” policy, not a lot of foreigners could be seen on the street. Once a foreigner with big nose and blue eyes appeared in the street, people would stop and make a circle to look a t the foreigner like they were watching a monkey in a zoo. They were curious about someone from outside their country. Another thing is that he married a Chinese girl, which was very rare in 1983. During Cultural Revolution, people who got relatives oversee would be criticized. In that early time early 80’s, it was such a brave thing to marry a foreigner. So I will say both Clay and his wife are brave people. They believe that they will have a good future and they do, I am sure. Here I wish them all the best
edited by Lding on 7/6/2011

[Anonymous]

On the topic of land reform – I kept thinking that it is a global issue. I confess that I have been ethnocentric thinking how much people in Mexico suffered during the Agrarian Reform but never gave thought to Chinese people enduring the same things until I heard this lecture. It certainly change my perspective in many regards especially with the marriage law change! Although, some people kept having those pre-arranged marriages because I met at least three couples in my church during mid 1980’s who married that way.

[Anonymous]

Another interesting point that Prof. Dube made during this class was that the Nationalists would likely have won the Chinese civil war in the 1930s, had the Japanese not invaded. After the war, of course, the Nationalists were defeated and withdrew to Taiwan. One element of their retreat that I hadn't known about was that they stripped the Imperial Palace of many of its most valuable treasures, now on view at the National Palace Museum in Taipei (a good illustration of the basis of the tensions between China and Taiwan and Taiwan's original insistence that it represented the legitimate government of China; after all, it had all the national treasures!). There was a good article about this in the New York Times yesterday, describing a 15th century (I think!) painting that had been split into two pieces during the 17th century. In time, one piece ended up in Taiwan's National Palace Museum, while the other (much smaller piece) went to a provincial museum in China. The reunited scroll is now on display in Taipei, which suggests some thawing between Taiwan and China; however, the National Palace Museum is unwilling to send its piece of the scroll to China, for fear that it won't be returned. The article explores the political and cultural significance of the exchange, as well as fears in Taiwan that China's generosity is only a cover for extending greater control. I think the article would be a good basis for discussion of China's role in East Asia, the symbolism of national heritage, and of course the relationship between China and Taiwan.

Here's the link to the article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/06/world/asia/06taiwan.html?scp=1&sq=taiwan%20art&st=cse

[Rob_Hugo@PortNW]

Hi all,

Please share your thoughts about session 8 on May 10 by replying to this thread. You may raise questions and share thoughts either before or after the session.

Best,
Xin

[Anonymous]

I agree with but bneubaur was saying about the Nationalists and winning. If I remember correctly, there are also a large number of tera-cota warriors in Taiwan as well that were taken from China

[Author]

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