Thoughts on June 3rd meeting

[Rob_Hugo@PortNW]

Reflecting on our discussions and what was shared during the meeting one particular thought remained forefront on my mind: the idea that we as educators can act as, or even more provocative, should be acting as agents of change in our student’s lives.

As an example, one teacher mentioned how disappointing it was to find out that some of his female student(s) were being raised to simply seek a husband/and or raise a family. In other words, the sentiment expressed by the teacher seemed to be that it was their full potential was not going to be realized because they were only aspiring to be “wives/mothers”.

Moreover, the teacher was expressing a desire to effect some kind change in the thinking of their student and/or the parents of the students. This is where one has to be careful in how as a teacher we present alternative paradigms. It is important to present all sides of an issue as objectively as possible, and then let the student form their own opinion on the matter.

To do otherwise creates a situation where we as educators start to become the arbitrators of what is the truth. Put differently, it is equally unfair to push/advocate a particular agenda on our students just because we think our way is the right way. It seems to me that if we do engage in this type of apostlizing we become no different than any other power structure that limits free thought and independent thinking.

[Anonymous]

This is a very interesting topic.
As teachers, what is our limit. When does guidance, support, prodding go too far and start inhibiting their natural learning about the way the world works. Is it better to protect them or expose them to the rough parts of life?
I remember when I was in high school, my two teachers had opposite ways of dealing with students with low grades. One just sort of ignored them, believing the low grade would give them the consequences they need. The other one bent over backwards trying to prevent the student from hurting their grade. I guess my philosophy is more in the middle of those two.
This connects to our class because it also fits in with the idea of culture. Cultural differences often are misunderstood and critiqued. On the other hand, cultural differences are also often used as excuses for nearly universally unacceptable behavior.
I guess the key for me is to use my knowledge of culture as a tool to understanding students and framing discussions.

[Anonymous]

This is so true! Our job as educators is to provide information to students, hopefully factual information. But everyone has their own filter, and the filters are dependant upon the family, neighborhood, society, culture, etc. that you come from. It is a real challenge to provide pure information without putting a personal spin or any other sort of spin on it. I have recently learned that asking the right question to provoke a thought process can be so much more effective than providing information.

[Anonymous]

I love your insight about questioning rather than "telling". So powerful, in all aspects of life but especially in the classroom.

I agree with all of the comments and ideas shared about the dangers of trying to indoctrinate or impose our own perspectives on our students. We really have to be vigilant so that our own values do not dominate.

However, I have to say that we have a responsibility (especially in the social sciences) to make our students aware that there are different perspectives and that as they mature they have the opportunity to choose and shape their own . As a history teacher, I feel that is one of the most important ideas they can come away with - that history is shaped by individuals, it is not some inevitable forward progression long ago scripted and beyond their influence. Likewise, their own stories and futures will be formed by their choices and they need to make them from a well informed and conscious position.

I have to admit to often sharing my own personal viewpoints, but I strive to make it clear that many people worthy and admirable people would disagree with me and that I am only one person. I feel that by putting my own viewpoint out there I am acknowledging that I have one, rather than presenting my ideas as "the" fact based record.

Do you guys disagree with this approach? Anybody else who puts their opinions out there with students?

[Anonymous]

I put my opinions out there for students as well, but I watch how I present them very carefully. I rememeber when I was in High School Biology, and the "Theory of Evolution" was introduced. I didn't have a clear understanding of the word "theory" and so it was quite a struggle to put together what I learned in my Bio class and what I learned on Sundays. It took me quite a few years to sort it all out, and it made me very conscious of how I present both theories and opinions to my students. I think there is value in it however, because we all need to learn to navigate through the world critically.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I offer my opinion but I disguise it with "Some people feel like..." and then I offer the opposite point of view.
The idea of having the students work to develop their own opinion is part of a great overall philosophy I have. I firmly believe that "you only learn if you do the work." When I started teaching I did all the work for my students. Now, that I'm a better teacher, I make them do the work. Obviously, I am very prepared, I just don't spoonfeed them the information. The point is this is their education, not mine. They must do the reading, the writing and the thinking. My class is not just one long, multi-day, multi-month epic one man play. I'm not an actor. The students must be involved.

[Anonymous]

As an educator we have the honor of impacting the lives of so many students and developing their minds. So many students, we are the only stability they have in their lives, that our role in their lives are so critical. We are no longer just a teacher, to teach the subject, but a teacher of life. But we need to be sensitive to their culture and how they have been raised, in doing so, we need to develop in them critical thinking skills, an ability to look at the whole picture and realize the importance of cause and effect; of making important decisions in their lives which will have an impact on their future. Our students are so in need of positive roles models in their lives, as we can see that many of the role models out there are sending the wrong messages.

[Anonymous]

What you pointed is true, to ask them the right questions to develop their thought process.
The question is what is factual, in whose perspective? That is the difficult task of realistically knowing the facts without imposing our own bias.

[Anonymous]

This topic is especially important and interesting to me. I was one of the people in the conversation during that class... and I always find the argument of relativism interesting. In some respects, we are required to respect others rights to their beliefs. But sometimes people's beliefs can affect our rights to life, property, or the pursuit of happiness.... So where do we draw that line?

I have not yet talked to students about a line. So far, I have asked them to think about what positive and what negative consequences and aspects there are to the things that surprise them. It causes them to pause and consider before they pass judgement. I like to do a debate about arranged marriage, which I discuss along with castes in ancient India. The students find it incredibly interesting, and have a small debate about the positives and negatives of arranged marriage. In most of the classes I have had this debate, not only have most of the kids strongly supported marriage for love, but in the debate, it appears that arranged marriage wins. This is because it is so practical. None of the kids are likely to suddenly prefer an arranged marriage, but they learn that sometimes other people's cultures may seem weird or different but that it doesn't make it bad. Of course, I also let them know that many cultures had arranged marriages at some point, whether or not they do now.

I also believe that students should be taught how to think, not what to think. It is a challenge with some of the students, especially those that are so resistant to learning at all. However, there are fun and interesting ways to do so. I took it upon myself to create a project with that as a goal for my 8th graders, which they completed after the CST. The students were in groups (which they love) and were given a choice (which they love) of many different current controversial topics (which they love). I had them do research on both sides and present both to the class. They also had presentation options. Then we discussed both sides as a class, then I made every student pick a side (for or against) and back up their opinion with three specific reasons. They loved the activity. Even my "no homework" students did a fair amount of the work and did the presentation. I was especially proud of myself, with all the students asking... that I did not reveal my point of view, even on the topics of most interest to me. Instead, I played devil's advocated and explored all aspects of the topic with the students in our discussion. I asked questions, and let them answer, and ocassionaly added info they did not know for both sides. And when I graded the student's judgement with reasons, I made sure that their point of view was not what I was grading, and instead graded the fact that they had reasons, and the reasons reflected the group presentation, our discussion, or thinking, and were not "because it's bad".

I think I would save the line of moral relativity for older students, high school or college. The young ones are barely learning that things other than what they think exist or can be okay.

[Anonymous]

I thought it was interesting that our second speaker made the comment that he stood quiet when one of his adult students spoke of being beaten in his culture. True the student is an adult (i.e. 18+) and one does not want to interfere, but isn’t it our legal obligation as educators to “interfere”? As k-12 teachers we must report abuse whether that abuse is a cultural practice or not, right? I shudder to think that we would not extend this same service to our adult students simply because we are not members of their ethnic group and therefore do not want to act for fear of being perceived of as cultural snobs. I know that college professors also have steps to follow in regard to abuse. And I know that it is sometimes a tricky thing determining what constitutes abuse, but is it really pushing our own cultural agenda, being ethnocentric if you will, to say to someone, well in no culture should one have to allow himself/herself to be abused and to accept it?

The issue of foot binding and FGM came up. Now I am all for not imposing an oppressive puritanical western belief system on ‘other’ cultures, including non-white cultures right here in America, but isn’t criticizing clitoral circumcision a little different than criticizing less severe practices such as tattooing or scarification?

In our own culture we openly criticize plastic surgery and even acknowledge the horrors associated with it—disfiguration, immobility, death…. And yet the current trend is to shy away from criticizing the seemingly similar practices of non-American cultures. Instead we are to praise and glorify and even encourage women’s attempts to make themselves beautiful by binding feet, necks, genitalia, etc. for fear that if we don’t we are evil imperialists. Now I acknowledge the practices as cultural/historical realities that were and are noble and honorable, and yet in this country were not/are not skin bleaching, hair straightening, and more recently nose jobs commonly acceptable cultural/ethnic practices? Should not other countries criticize America for pushing that agenda?

The question that never gets addressed is this: where do these mutilating beautification practices truly stem from? The argument that women are doing this to themselves is ludicrous. Women in this country get breast enlargements because they themselves want to, right? Wrong! Why in the world would anyone alter her body unless she felt she did not meet some standard that someone other than her came up with? And isn’t it obvious that ‘other’ equals ‘man’? Now I am a man, so I know this definition is accurate. Women are inherently beautiful as are men. Severe body modification is simply a desperate attempt to realize a false ideal, to achieve a self that is really a false self based on a false culture ideal created by us, men of all cultures, for entertainment.

I find it hard to accept certain practices as acceptable or fascinating or exciting simply because the rituals are practiced by interesting ‘ethnic’ people. As Americans do we only care about the safety and well being of American citizens? Let the natives scar and maim themselves for our viewing pleasure? If this were the case we wouldn’t have our beautiful Barbie Doll women roaming the streets of Beverly Hills.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Cori in that we need to teach our students critical thinking skills so that they can formulate opinions based on factual information. I also think that we need to validate our student's opinions, whether we agree with them or not, so that they may feel free to express themselves without restraint or fear of feeling or looking stupid. Furthermore, I think students shouid be taught to validate each other.

I have a lesson that I assign to my students each year that allows them to express themselves openly, while presenting factual information and expressing their own opinions. I have the students to think of an adverse condition that exists in the world today that they would if they could, do something about. This assignment is usually given in the spring, after the students have aquired some basic learnings. I give them a few days to ponder over this and then I ask for the topics that they've chosen. Since I don't usually allow any two students in the same class to choose the same topic, they must be quick about it. If a student can't think of a topic, I will tentatively assign them one, which they may change at any time before the second assignment in the series is given.

I then inform the students that they will be presenting public speeches to the class from generic outlines that I will give them, only with information about their own chosen topics plugged in. During the course of a six to eight week period, they will be given three different speech outlines: informative in which they present only factual information, argumentative in which they couple fact and opinions while presenting at least two sides to an arguement, and persuasive in which they state opinions and back them up with factual evidence, endeavoring to convince their audience to take a chosen course of action. Given in the proper dosage with mastery of needed skills, this can be a very powerful lesson. Usually, by the end of this unit even my most shy students have become more vocal and have enhanced their public speaking skills.

The students not only learn to distinguish fact from opinion, but to base their opinions on sound evidence, to do research, and to present logical arguements coupled with the art of persuasion.

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