Thoughts on Sessions 9 & 10 Reading

[Anonymous]

I really liked the letter/journal entry at the end of the readings. I never thought there would be a piece of Chinese literature from that era where the husband puts his wife above himself. He shows his love by admitting that she was the best out of the two. I really enjoyed reading it. Thank you.
edited by ccastaneda on 5/20/2012

[Anonymous]

I was amazed of reading the sample contracts especially the one about purchasing of the concubine. Also if she was to die unexpectedly, it is her fate? and that the second party had no responsibility? This part seems a lot fishy to me. I really didn't know they had such contracts. I can't wait to share these sample contracts with my students.

[Anonymous]

I certainly loved the contracts that were in the readings. I use rental agreements in my Econ class and I think I could do a cool comparison between our rental agreements and the documents we read. I was surprised to see the extent of details that they had and how legally binding they were. Interesting how the mediators played a major role and wondering if this was the start of the legal bureaucracy that exist today. Also re-emphasizing the ideas of honor, parents, etc in the foloowing documents were quite interesting. Pretty cool stuff.

[Anonymous]

Reading the contracts are very interesting! I showed them to my attorney/spouse and he also found them interesting. The one relating to the adoption of a son was especially interesting to me. I found that this could be used to help my students understand the importance the chinese culture places on the continuity of the family line. The birth or adoption of a son is as important today in China as it was hundreds of years ago and certainly before Communism. I definitely agree that using the contracts to compare and contrast over different curriculum topics (e.g., contracts in Economics or family traditions in Social Science) is a good idea!

[Anonymous]

The contracts left nothing to chance which seems wise in legal matters. They also are a good way to see the way the Chinese thought about things such as adoptions, concubines, making sure that everyone was "above board" in rental agreements and sales of houses and couldn't easily cheat the others involved. The part about the rest of the family having been consulted regarding the sale of a house seems practical, also.

[Anonymous]

The essay on "Ceremony and Deference" might be a good subject for discussion with students. Do they agree that by retreating a step, acknowledging some fault in an argument are good ways to resolve difficulties with another person? What are the obvious alternatives and do they work as well? The thinking in the essay is that because the customs, the dialects, speed of doing things and many other cultural traits varied so much from area to area, the thing to do was to introduce a common ceremonial way of doing things, rituals that would answer any uncertainty in manners, protocol. Is there another way of thinking about differences in people's customs and ways, of accepting the uniqueness of the northern people and contrasted to the southern folk, instead of seeing it as a bad thing to differ from region to region?

[Anonymous]

The essay, "Shen Fu", "My Wife", was such a sweet account of a young couple in love. It seems universal and could have been written in any country at any time.

[Anonymous]

The reading on geneology was complex but it to misunderstand it and to make a mistake such as including a stepson or adoptee with a different surname in the anals of the family geneology could get you 60 lashes. The reverence for the ancestors, according to the reading, was so deep and so carefully notatated that only good deeds or anecdotes could be included. So many westerners would love to know anecdotes about their ancestors but about all that has been recorded are the dates of their births, marriages, births of their children, if any, and the dates of their deaths. Of course there are family stories of ancestors but nothing consistently kept in records of the personalities and deeds, good or bad.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in a Chinese family in America. This I believe provided me with a very unique upbringing. In some ways my experience growing up is very Chinese. In other ways it's very western. The reading this week on Ming-era contracts opened my mind to a particular aspect of my Chinese upbringing. Let me explain. My father was not a good communicator to us kids. It was my mom's role to explain his wishes and expectations for us children. Over time I developed a "sixth-sense" when it came to anticipating my father's desires, and sometime even his thoughts. Later on I found out the Chinese have a term for this: Ti Hui (to know, understand). I became good at it. So much so I knew what my dad wanted, and I acted on it without him saying anything. I got used to this (I don't like to talk either), and it seemd to please him, too. Gradually I developed this [false] notion that spoken words are often not necessary for efficient communication. I learned , in a way, to program myself to sense the needs of others (for example, by picking up on non-verbal clues) and accomodate to what I precieved as their needs and wants. This was all going just fine, until I met my future wife. But that's another story... Back to the Ming contracts. I was suprised to see the commercial contracts (buying and selling of concubines, sons, house, cattle, etc). If I came across them in any other format besides as an assigned reading from Dr. Dube, I probably would have dismissed them as hoax. Written contracts are a western practice, not Chinese! Important things need not be written down. In my culture all important matters need not be put down in writing. It's understood! All parties concerned would "Ti Hui" the other's needs and desires! Why have it in writing? Well, I was wrong, and so was my dad for not talking to us kids and sharing his feeling with us. I've also learned (and still learning) the hard way the need to verbally communicate my feeling and desires with others, especially my wife and family.

[Anonymous]

Reading through these posts, it becomes apparent that I missed some very interesting lectures/discussions in this session! I am very sorry to have missed it!

[Rob_Hugo@PortNW]

Just started reading the stuff for tomorrow, and getting some thoughts...Was a contract needed for daughters? Did the adoption of girls exist? Also, I know of this story about two of my grandma's sisters. One was never married, so another sister gave her one of her sons. Not sure if it involved a contract. That generation are all gone now. I do remember them talking about it very matter-of-factly, once even in front of the son. My jaw almost dropped completely off my face, but they just talked about it like bunch of folks sitting around remeniscing about the past.

When I taught middle school US history I used to show a documentary film called the "Orphan Train." It was about how the Children's Aid Society of NYC brought together city orphans with mostly midwest farmers. By the train load, children will be sent west, and at certain towns and stops along the way, be paired up with farm families in need of children. Invariably, the story touches mine and my students' heart in some way. These were children who were (far as we can know) truly orphaned. Many were unwanted street kids....Any way, what I wonder is how different eastern and western thinking can be! Sorry it took so long to come to my point (BTW, two of the orphan train riders later became governors).

[Anonymous]

What strikes me about these reading is that even though there is much about the context that is foreign to me, they display common problems people deal with every where and at all times. For example, the relationship dynamics in Lotus's story. The power struggle and manipulation is played out among siblings and lovers today. The roles of scapegoat, victim, mediator, boss, and favorite can be observed in many reality shows today, unfortunately. It is informative that even with clear standards for behavior and centuries of their reinforcement in places like China has not cured humans of their basic natures. People then, as now, seem to motivated by the same desires and troubled by the same concerns.

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